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PostPosted: Tue Jun 7, '11, 10:14 pm 
Isn't the Neisword supposed to dispell any influence from Dark Force? After Dark Force is defeated Mother Brain and the Earthmen are still clearly evil. Maybe the Neisword dispelling the Earthmens' evil is what happened at the end before the credits? (although I prefer the Rolf cast megid to destroy Noah and Lutz transported him and his team back to the Esper Mansion scenario)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 7, '11, 10:25 pm 
Maybe it can only remove a relatively new influence. When a party member gets corrupted during the boss battle, they've just been exposed to DF for a short while before the Neisword dispels that evil. The Earthmen had been around Dark Force for a very long time, so maybe his claws are sunk deeper into them.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 8, '11, 12:55 am 
I also get the vibe that they weren't simply entranced/possessed. There seems a definite possibility that earthlings (or at least this group) are just this morally bankrupt. PS II was a very dark game as far as its conception of human nature (or any kind of sentient life, really). Considering what we've actually done in our own history a plan of that sort doesn't seem completely inconceivable.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 8, '11, 3:29 pm 
Bragatyr wrote:I also get the vibe that they weren't simply entranced/possessed. There seems a definite possibility that earthlings (or at least this group) are just this morally bankrupt. PS II was a very dark game as far as its conception of human nature (or any kind of sentient life, really). Considering what we've actually done in our own history a plan of that sort doesn't seem completely inconceivable.


That is what I was thinking. They destroyed their world without DF, and they came into Algo and introduced Mother Brain planning a takeover centuries before the Dark Force cycle. Maybe Dark Force just planted himself on Noah in anticipation of Rolf and his party? Maybe he did have at least an influence in them destroying Palm, but they had sinister plans long before. On the other hand, they freely confessed to destroying Palm with no remorse even after Dark Force was defeated.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, '11, 11:58 am 
Bragatyr wrote:I also get the vibe that they weren't simply entranced/possessed. There seems a definite possibility that earthlings (or at least this group) are just this morally bankrupt. PS II was a very dark game as far as its conception of human nature (or any kind of sentient life, really). Considering what we've actually done in our own history a plan of that sort doesn't seem completely inconceivable.

Considering the Earthmen were probably modelled after us that's not far fetched. Mankind has a tendency for destruction and evil. Even when things go rough people still scheme against one and another and seeking personal gain. Also we learn that the Earthmen managed to make their own world (Earth) uninhabitable. And that happened without any influence from DF. Maybe DF just enhanced a seed of evil that couldn't be removed.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, '11, 10:42 am 
Besides, nowhere in PSI or PSII it says that Dark Force possessed people and turned them corrupt. In PSI, the governor is briefly enchanted by DF, but it comes as unrelated to all the events regarding Lassic.

In PSII, Dark Force seems to be generated by the humans, not the opposite (in one Japanese script translation, there is a intro where they state that Lassic ruled Algol with a Dark Force - not that Dark Force possessed him. Then towards the end, they clearly state that Dark Force is a gift from their planet to Algol).

In PSIII, things change somewhat, because Dark Force seems to be an independent agent. However, if you pay attention to the script, they say Orakio and Laya managed to trap Dark Force, not to destroy it, so it may have worked like PSI Dark Force after Lassic's death.

Only in PSIV, the story is transformed into a battle between the light and the darkness, where all the evil is caused by a supreme evil force (Profound Darkness).

So, you can assume that, at the point PSII was made (and up to PSIII), there was no intention of saying that DF was the cause of evil in people, but the materialization of their negative feelings. Therefore, the evil is inside themselves, and it is not like the temporary influence Dark Force causes on people (Motavia governor, party members).


Last edited by tilinelson2 on Mon Dec 19, '11, 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, '12, 9:21 am 
I'd like to come back to the point made in the last post. I think you are right. I played through a PSII fangame and it ends with a party on Palma fighting DF and MB while Rolf & co are on the prison satellite. It uses the same text when you open the Box of Pandora. I don't have the exact text in memory any more but I think even the English translation says something that "this is a gift from our world to you". It seems that Earthmen were inherently corrupt and it's plausible in my eyes to argue that DF was the physical manifestation of their evil and morally corruptness. I agree that DF didn't seem to be cause of all the trouble in PSII, that was MB, who according to end game dialogue was designed by the Earthmen to destroy the population of Algo so they could claim the system for their own.

I'm not so sure about PSI. I know the English and Japanese version differ greatly due to the translation into English, but I tend to favour the English version. In the English version, the game manual states that Lassic was a benevolent ruler until priests from an unknown religion slowly started to corrupt him. I can only interpret that as agents of DF corrupting Lassic to evil, in which DF * the source of the evil of PSI and in my eyes the temporary possession of the governor is related to it. Since someone rose up and actually killed Lassic DF tried to stop them by possessing the governor and kill them himself.

As far as I recall, in the Japanese version Lassic actually seeks out DF for himself for power or immortality. In that view I think we could argue again that DF is the physical manifestation of evil and corruptness in people, not the aspect of some malevolent entity trying to corrupt people.

But I think morally corrupt and evil people is not a good theme for SEGA games considering PSIV takes a whole new angle with the PD.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, '12, 11:55 pm 
Well, I don't disagree with either English or Japanese texts. The only thing I don't trust is the game manuals. They used to say a lot of things that have no basis on the games themselves. I have some games whose manuals mention characters that don't exist, events that never happen, and incorrect explanations.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, '12, 1:17 pm 
It's true that the manuals aren't the more accurate material : alot of errors are printed (but the errors can also be found into the games... ;))
About Dark Force in Phantasy Star I, Fogeltje tends to be right BUT the japanese story isn't very far from the english one : see the text :
"It seemed that the nobles of the ruling class had become possessed with heathenism, and that LaShiec, who had been possessed the strongest, had traded away Algol in exchange for eternal life." (Go see it HERE :
smspower.org/uploads/Translations/Phant ... EN-manual/ It's a translation of the japanese manual of the first PS.
(TILINELSON : even if I now know that you look at instruction manuals with a "distant eye" ;) )


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