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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, '10, 1:09 am 
I'm reading through the English PSIV script and trying to get an idea of when, exactly, Motavia was struck by that piece of Palma. Did it happen right after Palma was annihilated, or did it take a while?

I'm inclined to think it didn't happen so soon, because in PSII Motavia looks the same until the end of the game. Who knows how long it took the group to explore Dezolis; I think it took a while to complete their exploration since they had to do so much travel on foot. This, however, is purely speculation on my part.

Anyway, is there a clearer source for this information? Also, in PSIV it says this:
Quote:Then a series of disasters struck.
The system-wide managment system, 'Mother Brain,' was destroyed.
So was the first planet, Parma.
Over 90% of the system's population died, and the advanced technological
culture was lost.

For some reason I always thought what was meant by that was that of the remaining system's population--not including those that perished during Palma's destruction--over 90% died. I might be misunderstanding this, however. Does the over 90% include the ones that died on Palma?

The Compendium translation says this about The Great Collapse:
Quote:Term referring to the destruction of Mother Brain and the annihilation of Parma by the fall of the artificial satellite Gaila in AW 1284. Due to these events, more than 90% of the total population was killed, and civilization was thrust into a rapid decline.

So... I'm thinking "of the total population" refers to the ones lost on Palma as well. Maybe?

When do you think Motavia was hit by a Palma fragment?

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, '10, 8:21 am 
Only a year after the events of Phantasy Star 2.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, '10, 5:38 pm 
I'd say Motavia was hit a few years after Palma's destruction. When the PSIV heroes go to Vahal Fort, Wren talks a little about the things that happened after Mother Brain's fall and the crash of technology. From that, we know that there was a Motavian army that attempted to stabilize the environment by building Daughter to replace Mother Brain. They had enough time to calculate how much damage Palma would do to Motavia and decide to abandon Daughter in favor of building Wren's network on Zelan.

I doubt all that could have happened very quickly. Maybe within a year, but that seems like pressing it. At least two years is more likely to my view.

On the 90% death toll figure: I think that does includes Palma, but I also question the accuracy of the number. I think the number probably includes the entire population of Palma. The people on Motavia would think that everyone from Palma was destroyed, but we know that there were many survivors. The Alisa III was part of a large fleet carrying many people. I find it hard to believe that Palma had enough people for the death toll to outweigh the survivors by that much.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, '10, 2:52 pm 
What i'm more interested in, is how the entire planet could be obliterated by a single crash, just like that...

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, '10, 4:52 pm 
I can see three possibilities on that: either Gaira was really big, it was moving really fast, or it was filled with some mighty strong explosives.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, '10, 9:06 pm 
Well, we known the seal "weakens" per Le Roof, so perhaps that one moment of vulnerability makes the planet more susceptible to destruction? The Compendium says the collision of Gaira and the ensuing explosion are what destroy the planet, so I'm thinking it was a multi-step process. Seal weakens, PD (via the Earthmen or maybe his own will) directs Gaira to crash into the planet at a high speed, collision kills many and damages the planet badly, volatile components of the satellite go up and finish the job.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, '10, 9:20 pm 
I think Gaira was mostly an excuse to take the blame away from something more sinister. I think the earthmen and the Mother Brain network planted some hardcore explosive deep in Palma, perhaps through "mining" operations, and that's how the planet was really obliterated. Just a theory, of course, but it might also explain why the citizens, or at least some of them, found out their planet was going to be destroyed.

I've also questioned that "over 90%" of the system's population was killed. It seems overly dramatic to me. The only theory I can come up with is that the piece of Palma that struck Motavia caused way more damage than the government anticipated, wiping out most of Motavia's population, too. Or, maybe it happened a little over time, until eventually the combination of Palma being obliterated, Motavia destabilizing, and Motavia being struck by Palma caused the system's population to dip to below 10% of the total from before the events of Phantasy Star II. Since Dezolis appears sparsely populated, I don't think they contribute much to the overall system's population.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, '10, 9:25 pm 
We could also think that the fight between Ohario and Aina against the 1000 year Dark Falz decimated the planet.

It also coulda been weakened by the shift in the orbit of the two planets due to the conjunction probably caused by the Noah.

Well in Ps 1, Dark Force was summoned years earlier and became Lassics Servant. Maybe come PS 2, the Dark Force that escaped was more powerful?

We also have Ps 3 in japanese stating that DF appeared and ravaged Palma and when Ohario and Aina fought it, they lost and Parma was evacuated before DF destroyed it.

I take it that Palma was a warzone.

We have a PSO comparison where Dark Falz just gathered power after every defeat and then blew up pioneer 1 and almost had enough power come PSO Episode 2 to blow up Ragol.

Remember, Ohario didn't have any NEI WEAPONS xd

So then we have Dark Falz decimating the planet to the point the impact of Gaira blew it up.

Considering no one on Mota even knew about the battles on Palma.. It's natural for people to assume something hits the planet and bingo it explodes!

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, '10, 2:06 pm 
Mostly probably not so soon, because, to be a big fragment, enough to cause large damage to Motavia could not have a high speed (considering spatial speeds and distances)

Considering the forces involving a satellite crash with a planet, the planet would never have exploded. Even if Mars crash on Earth, Earth will not explode. Part of both planets will be scattered in the space, but Mars core will blend with Earth core, forming one new planet.

What I consider is that the crash of Gaira with Palma was so strong that it crumpled the part of the planet where the crash happened, but it didn't destroy the planet at once. It is like a huge asteroid hit the Earth and the mankind would eventually be extinct, but not at once. That is why I think Palmians were able to build some large spaceships and flee the collapsing planet. Palma would not have exploded, but would have turned into an uninhabitable mass.

In PSII, Gaira doesn't look much larger than a spatial station. As a result, it couldn't be traveling at near light speed, otherwise it would pass through Palma, causing less damage than a regular collision, because it would not lose all the energy. It would also not generate debris enough to cause damage to Motavia. Being so, the theory of a non-explosive collapse in Palma seems more likely, with Gaira being big and fast as a large asteroid.

The debris from the collision between Palma and Gaira could not travel so fast, otherwise that meant almost no energy was spent in the collision. In fact they would be much slower than Gaira. Considering a regular distance between the planets (over 10 million miles), it would take months, if not years, to a large fragment of Palma, enough to cause the "Great Collapse", hit Motavia.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, '10, 9:37 pm 
We could just go with the Earthmen causing many minor explosions on Palma and then the satellite hit right at the most volatile point.

Well Parma and Mota switched orbits due to magnetic interference from the huge damn fortress Noah so maybe the Earthmen used the same to send the fragment to Mota?

We also know that Mota and Parma are close enough in orbit to be able to switch places.

I say Dark Falz gathered energy after being defeated and then weakened the planet with a explosion to where when Gaira hit, it exploded.

Here we go:

Quote:Gaila (II)
An artificial satellite where criminals are imprisoned. Its fall to Parma and the ensuing explosion annihilate Parma.

Here we also go, from the compendium section under Mother Brain.

Quote:In the following years, construction began on the network on Parma, with Mother Brain at its core.

That sounds like Mother Brain controlled all of the planet down to the core.

Earthmen speech from Naflign's retranslation:

Quote:Soon, we were able to destroy your planet of Parma.

Now if we put the picture together, the Earthmen caused chain reactions on Parma via Mother Brain and when Gaira hit it, well that was the final straw. KABLOOM.

An explosion and Gaira hitting the right spot.. Then we coulda had the Earthmen use their electromagnetic influence to send fragments to Mota.

in PS IV, the only thing left of Parma is a asteroid field AND Lashiec's castle.

P.S. we cannot apply EARTH size and our physics and what we think could happen to Phantasy Star. Mota and Palma are small planets. Dezo is a small planet too.

We cannot state what we THINK would happen from the moon hitting a planet as a scenario. Just like people OVERESTIMATE the blast radius and tonnage of a nuclear bomb. The ones dropped on Japan were mild. We've never seen it so we can't predict with our science something in another galaxy on a smaller planet. What we think is proven wrong every day.

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