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PostPosted: Tue Nov 4, '08, 3:32 pm 
In a previous topic (, thoul wrote
Thoul wrote:I wonder if Dorin knew Rune was Lutz? He seemed to know quite a few things others wouldn't.

I found this important enough to open a new topic and use this as the thesis. And here is my response:
Actually, that leads us to another important question: Where did Dorin go, and who was he? Knowing what he knew, I don't believe that Dorin could have always been the elder of a motavian village. It seems to me that residing as an elder would have been a waste of Dorins talent. Does anyone other than me think that it's strange that Dorin (allegedly) knew about magic? Gryz even hints that Dorin could use magic, something that I find very odd seeing as how Motavians barely know any technique. Do you think that Dorin could have been a greater being desguised as a Motavian? I may be far off track here but I think it' something to consider.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 4, '08, 8:31 pm 
How did Grandfather Dorin come upon all his information? Considering his self-given title as "information monger" I imagine he has various sources. Is this the "talent" you are referring to? I'm sure it's not magic; I just scanned the PSIV Script and found no place where Gryz implies Dorin can use magic. The only evidence that he knows of magic is his relationship with Rune and knowledge of the Ladea Tower.

So now I'm genuinely confused: what's the basis for your thesis?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 5, '08, 11:56 am 
Well, there was a theory that Gryz was an esper like Rune who somehow was transformed (or disguised) as an Motavian. The theory pointed some reasons: Gryz wears the exact same outfit as Rune: green clothes and same boots. Gryz also have blue hair and uses a cape. But... it was just that. If we accept this, many of other motavians (Pana included) are Espers and simply the race "Motabian" does not exist after all.

My opinion is that we should fill "untold information" with the easiest answers possible (this of course may have some exceptions, like everything). In this particularly case it would be simpler to say that with the exception of the Espers' mantle, Rune's green clothes and boots were offered by motavians (he seams to spent a lot of time with them). An even simpler answer would be, of course, that clothes in Motabia are +/- all the same, they have the same cultural design.

Anyway, I think we should assume that Dorin spent some time with Rune. Dorin knows about magic so he may had in the past a similar experience that Hahn had with Rune (Hanh now knows magic; he doesn't perform spells but he saw it before went to Tonoe / So, it's implied that Dorin also saw Rune perform it).

We don't know for how long Dorin knows Rune, but I believe it was after Rune met Alys when he was 14 years old and before PSIV. Rune and Dorin had adventures together (I'm certain the Quest for Ladea tower in PSIV wasn't their only adventure together). Also, it is not impossible that Dorin had joined them (Alys, Rune and Galf) during the four years that the brand-new Lutz had stayed with Brangwin.

What quest was that? We don't know... we only know that it was part of Rune's training. The McGuffin was probably that unknown item that, in the end, Rune asked for Dorin to take care. Part of that past adventure may have something to do with* Ashline (and consequently I bring Medusa back), Galf's death and Alys fame. There are plenty of material to do another game or a coherent story.

*- I would also point the ascendancy of Ladea tower and Rune teaching citizens from Termi. But since it's debatable if it was he or Lutz1 let's just mention it here.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 5, '08, 3:21 pm 
News, you bring up some extremely interesting points. In particular, I'm fascinated with your observation about the similarities between Gryz and Runes clothing. Let's take this a step farther at the risk of veering off topic. If anyone here is familiar with art history, then you'll know that art reflects the cultural values and belief systems of a culture. Of course, both Motavia and Dezolis share the notion that Alis did wonders for Algo. We can see this reflected by the numerous statues of Alis placed in Motavian cities and in Esper Mansion where statues of Alis seem to be omni-present. Going on this avenue, can anyone else find more links between Motavia and Dezolis?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 6, '08, 4:04 am 
I wouldn't be surprised if Dorin had traveled with Rune and Alys, or even on his own, when younger, and much of his knowledge came from that. He couldn't have been an elder for all of his life, but what he did before that is up for fan interpretation.

Heikabuchi wrote:Gryz even hints that Dorin could use magic, something that I find very odd seeing as how Motavians barely know any technique.

Can we really be sure about how well versed Motavians are in techniques, though? Our only point of reference for that is Gryz. He is on the weak side when it comes to technique use, but that could just be because he's more of a strongman character type. Other Motavians might be much better at technique usage.

Dorrinal wrote:I just scanned the PSIV Script and found no place where Gryz implies Dorin can use magic.

When the group was setting out to find Rune, Gryz mentions something about magic probably being used to cross the quicksand. It's kind of vague as to who he's talking about. Probably Rune, but it could have just as easily been a reference to Dorin.

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