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 Post subject: Lutz and the PS Timeline
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, '11, 3:45 am 
So I've been thinking about Espers and all the things that happened in the thousands of years that weren't covered in the games. If Rune Walsh is the fifth generation Lutz, then how were the other Lutzes distributed throughout the years?

Rolf & Co. meet (a) Lutz in 1284 and we learn about his cryogenic sleep. Whether or not it's the same person who fought alongside Alis Landale has always been rather a heated debate, but either way, let's assume that PSII Lutz is the first generation. The Compendium says that that Lutz dies in 1299 (whether or not some things in the Compendium should be considered canon can also be argued, but let's keep it simple for now and assume that is accurate).

By 2284, Rune is Lutz. We don't really know how old he is, or how long he has been Lutz by that point. If the first Lutz died in 1299, that leaves us 985 years with only four other espers having the Lutz title. So are we to assume that the other Lutzes did the same thing as the first one and only woke every 10 years or so, despite there being no mention of it in PSIV? Could Rune have been frozen and thawed out before the game took place and decided to just leave that little tidbit out while revealing nearly everything else about being Lutz? Do Espers have longer average lifespans than Palmans/humans?

Math makes my brain hurt.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, '11, 6:33 am 
Sounds like a good general idea, maybe the lifespan of Lutz is literally 300 years due to the cryogenic sleep and since they wake up every 10 years, lets say the average person destined to be Lutz is 18. After he becomes Lutz he improves his skills for say 3 years, at 21 he goes into a sleep for 10 years, technically being 31, but in reality he is still 21. Say he is only awake every 3 years before he enters his sleep again. After the first 100 years Lutz would be 51 years old, another 100 years Lutz would be 81 years old. And if, and this is a big if say that the average Palman, Algoian, Esper, whatever can live well into their 100's before they die, Lutz would leave this world at the age of 111. Then the new Lutz would repeat the cycle.

Now if the original Lutz supposedly died in 1299, and if my theory was usable, the 2nd generation Lutz would of lived through 1299-1599. The 3rd generation Lutz would have lived through 1599-1899, the 4th generation Lutz would have lived through 1899-2199. Now that Rune is the 5th generation Lutz, if we were to go by my theory, if the new Lutz was already born during the life of the last Lutz and obtained his powers and knowledge near the end of his life. Rune Walsh could of been born in 2181, making him 18 years of age by the time the 4th generation Lutz died.

Now if Rune did indeed go through the cryogenic sleep like previous Lutz's, Rune could indeed be about 103 years of age, although he still has the appearance of a man in his early 40's. Now just bringing Alys into this for a minute, Alys and Rune must of met in his youth,most likely after his 4th or 5th sleep, Rune may of been in his late 20's to early 30's when he met the young Alys. Thus giving a little insight onto why Alys hadn't seen Rune in many years during the game.

Does my theory make any sense?


Last edited by Celeith on Sat Apr 30, '11, 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, '11, 9:10 pm 
Quote:If Rune Walsh is the fifth generation Lutz, then how were the other Lutzes distributed throughout the years?

Assuming Noah = PSII Lutz, Rune says that Noah was the first generation Lutz (that Lutz fought Lashiec). That means there are four Lutzes to cover the 985 years of 1299 to 2284. Rune is the last, so there are three others - second, third, and fourth generation Lutzes.

We can also say that the first Lutz was at least 971 when he died (1299 - 342, plus assuming he was at least 15 when meeting Alis).

Personally, I am of the opinion that the cold sleep technology was retired from use sometime after PSII. Noah proved that he was willing to use it to extend his life for a very long period. If he stopped using it, there had to be a reason for that. Machines break down, so maybe the equipment failed and replacement parts could not be acquired due to the technology regression on Motavia. Even if Noah chose to simply live out the rest of his life, the second Lutz could have also used cold sleep to extend his life to 900+ years. It just doesn't fit that we're seeing the fifth Lutz if they were still using the cold sleep. Meeting the Second or third Lutz in PSIV would fit with the timeframe better.

Moving on the Rune, eere are some details about the timeline that we can glean from PSIV and the translations of the Compendium and Memorial Drama CD.

  • Rune became Lutz at 15.
  • "After that," Rune went to Motavia and met 14 year old Alys.
  • 4 years later, Rune left so Alys would become independent.
  • Drama CD: Alys is a highly skilled hunter hired to capture Chaz.
  • Drama CD: Chaz is 13.
  • PSIV: Chaz is 16.

So what does this tell us? If we assume that there was not a long pause between Rune becoming Lutz and going to Motavia, as the Compendium translation implies, then Rune only became Lutz around 7 years before PSIV. With a little padding for Alys to develop her reputation as a hunter, that could be rounded off to 10 years. This would make Rune 25 and Alys 24 at the time of PSIV. By comparison, Hahn was 25.

Knock off 10 years for Rune's estimated Lutz period and that leaves 975 years for the second to fourth generation Lutzes to cover. If we assume each had a similar lifespan, that's 325 years per Lutz. That might be feasible if they're using magic to extend their lifespans instead of cold sleep (or perhaps, using only magic instead of a combination of the two).


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PostPosted: Sun May 1, '11, 7:59 am 
What if there is a delay between Lutzs, as in, the next Lutz doesn't have to come along right after the previous Lutz dies. In PSIV Rune says "When Lutz died he left his will and memory in the telepathy ball." and "If the chosen person appears, Lutz's will and memory will be transferred to that person." He doesn't say that chosen person gets it from the previous Lutz, only from the telepathy ball, which is possible to sit there for hundreds of years waiting for the next chosen one. Because Algo was generally peaceful between PSII and PSIV, the telepathy ball might not have seen a need for a Lutz for a few hundred year gaps.


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PostPosted: Sun May 1, '11, 6:25 pm 
Ohh, that's a nice catch. Rune does say if the chosen person appears, not when. That makes it entirely possible that a Lutz could appear very rarely. Rune might even be the last one.


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PostPosted: Mon May 2, '11, 12:54 am 
Wing Eye wrote:What if there is a delay between Lutzs, as in, the next Lutz doesn't have to come along right after the previous Lutz dies. In PSIV Rune says "When Lutz died he left his will and memory in the telepathy ball." and "If the chosen person appears, Lutz's will and memory will be transferred to that person." He doesn't say that chosen person gets it from the previous Lutz, only from the telepathy ball, which is possible to sit there for hundreds of years waiting for the next chosen one. Because Algo was generally peaceful between PSII and PSIV, the telepathy ball might not have seen a need for a Lutz for a few hundred year gaps.


Ooh, that is good, you're right, Rune does say that. My only issue with that theory is that Kyra and others truly believe that Lutz has been alive for 2000 years. Though we know they've never really "seen" Lutz, I'd think that long, unexplained absences could dispel them of that notion.

I'd be inclined to go with Kaloes' theory of cryogenic sleep were it not for the fact that Phantasy Star IV, a game that mentions nearly EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN in great detail, makes no reference to it whatsoever. But perhaps they were extending their lives somehow, as Thoul suggested (though I will argue with those estimated ages, as Rune and Alys always seemed slightly older and wiser than the others to me...maybe early thirties?).

We could get into a discussion about if the Espers or Lutzes have longer lifespans, if the lengths of the stages of life (childhood, adolescence, etc.) become longer as well, but then that would really make my head asplode. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon May 2, '11, 10:02 pm 
I'm inclined to believe PSIV just messed it up once more. I don't know what thy had in mind when they made PSIV, but the urge to insert Lutz not only made Lutz become a title instead of a name, but also ruined any possibility for a logica and simple explanation.


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PostPosted: Thu May 5, '11, 2:57 am 
augmentedfourth wrote:Ooh, that is good, you're right, Rune does say that. My only issue with that theory is that Kyra and others truly believe that Lutz has been alive for 2000 years. Though we know they've never really "seen" Lutz, I'd think that long, unexplained absences could dispel them of that notion.


It could be that Kyra was only taught that Lutz has been around for 2000 years, and she just assumed that it meant he was alive the whole time.


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PostPosted: Thu May 5, '11, 11:04 am 
augmentedfourth wrote:(though I will argue with those estimated ages, as Rune and Alys always seemed slightly older and wiser than the others to me...maybe early thirties?).


Those ages didn't seem correct to me, at first. Alys being younger than Hahn just feels wrong. After giving it some more thought, I think it could work. Rune has Lutz in his head; coming across as older and wiser would be easy when you have the life experience of a 900 year old wizard. That just leaves Alys.

Hahn led a relatively sheltered life - student and son of a successful business owner. Alys, on the other hand, was training as a Hunter from the age of 14. She's been out in the field, taking countless jobs and gaining a lot of harder life experience. That could account for difference that makes her seem more mature.

But of course, we could just pad the ages a little more, too. Add another 5 years or so, to bump Alys up to 29-30, and that just gives even more time for her reputation to grow.


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