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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, '10, 7:10 am 
One thing that bothers me about a lot of RPGs, especially the older ones, is that there's always some really big, evil entity that's the final boss. Well, that doesn't really bother me, I guess, it just seems played out.

I don't think, personally, that everything was so neatly wrapped up at the end of PSIV. I don't mean that I can see how there would be a return of the Profound Darkness, but I don't see the problems of Algol as being completely answered. When I mentioned introducing a new threat in my earlier post, what I really meant was, couldn't we see a PSV that focuses on the problems Motavia (and Dezolis, to a lesser extent) are facing, post-PSIV, rather than some really epic force of evil threatening civilization yet again?

How about this: Make the next game in the series a struggle between men. Explore the formation of government and bring in someone similar to, say, Zio, who is trying to become the supreme ruler. Take out the "Must! Defeat! Satan!" aspect. It'll still be a really good game.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, '10, 2:02 pm 
Oh, yes, Tanith, I really think they could do something like that. The only issue I have with that is that it would not be in accordance with the other PS games because in all the others (but for PSII, maybe) the evil people were like that only because Dark Force / Profound Darkness influence. They make us assume that DF/PD are the root of all evil and once they are defeated, there is no evil anymore.
So, with all dark forces gone, how people would be evil?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, '10, 7:05 pm 
That my friend is the million dollar question. In every RPG you defeat the ultimate evil of the game. But if you think about it does evil ever truly go away. I perfer to take this quote from Tales of Phantasia to make things alot simpler for me when dealing with this subject.

Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind.
-Edward D. Morrison


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, '10, 8:22 pm 
Kaloes wrote:Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind.
-Edward D. Morrison


I was thinking the exact same thing, Kal. I was actually thinking of William Golding's 'The Lord of the Flies'. Brilliant book, a definite must read, where the real evil in that book actually lies within the heart of the feuding, marooned boys on a remote island. Having an abstract, evil being as the ultimate is one of the ultimate cliches in RPGs.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, '10, 8:55 pm 
Besides, good and evil are just subjective terms. Evil is always used to describe something horrifying to people who would never do it.

The same can be said for good. Good is evil usually justified. Good is always selfishly done to obtain something for the doer. Eh.. Altruism debates suck.

Many "considered" evil acts have been justified as good. Many "considered" good acts can be called evil.

It really should boil down to lesser and greater evil.

In the end, a person will define good and evil differently from everyone else. Evil will always be subjective.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, '10, 3:40 am 
In concept, I agree with all of you. I´d prefer much more if the ultimate boss in PSI was Lassic, a corrupt governor, than Dark Force, because the story would be much stronger. In PSII it is ok, because the ultimate evil are the Earthmen. In PSIII and PSIV, it should be changed.

I do believe evil is in the heart of people and that concepts of good and evil are somewhat relative: they depend on ethics of population and personal ethics too. We only have more or less the same perception of evilness and goodness because the dominating schools of thought we have in the world are based on religions with more or less the same principles.

I don´t want to enter in these matters because they are not related to the core of the discussion but we can see this difference of thought among people: there are some who believe people are responsible for evil and good things; there are others who believe there are some supernatural entities who are responsible for evil and good. Phantasy Star only chose one, that is ok. The only thing is, in real life, we never fight these supernatural entities with swords and guns. In PS world, they do, so it limits its scope.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, '10, 4:50 am 
Quote:In PSII it is ok, because the ultimate evil are the Earthmen.


Are they?
The eartmen fled earth after they made in inhabitable maybe even destroyed it completly .(If PSIII including in the story i wonder what happened to London mission control? in one of those 4 endings))
The Earthman Leader? mentioned "We took joy in controlling nature; we didn't realize we were destroying ourselves until it was too late."
Sounds like some sort of regret, pitty maybe.
So they left earth found a new system to live in and when they tried to inhabit/colonize it Dark Force came into the picture and found their week spirits wanting (he probable felt their need for power and control) and corupted them (just like Dark Falz corrupted the week spirit of Lassic).
The Dark side of the force is quicker, easier (The earthman are just like Start Wars - Darth Vader )
This would still mean Dark Force is the main baddie of PSII (leaving Motherbrain and the Earthman...hey why no Eartwoman? because those are easy? as a little extra to the story).


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, '10, 7:17 am 
Actually, according to japanese ps 2, Dark Force existed on Earth. It was what caused the Earthmen to destroy their world. I'll quote the japanese:

First is the quote of Dark Force before you fight him, next is the Earthman leader story:

Quote:
Voice- Ha ha ha ha ha ha!! Welcome to the ultimate trap, the Pandora's box! Inside it contains the force of darkness that you call the Dark False. This is our little gift to your world from us!

Yushisu- What is going on? Who are these people?

Captain- Welcome aboard Noah, Algolians.

Yushisu Who are you people?

Captain- Now let's not be too hostile, you must be thinking we are your enemy, are you not? <question 1>

Reply Yes to question 1- Well that's sad to hear. Indeed, we must say you are our hated enemy too after you have destroyed our Mother Brain.

<point A> Yushisu-So it is you who created Mother Brian, is it not? Who are you people?

Captain-We are not Algorians. We come from a far away planet called Earth. It is one of the planets that supported life. We created a large civilization there, which flourished for millions of years (note the word millions...clearly, Bill Gates isn't behind Mother Brain after all). We are the last bloodline of the inhabitants of planet Earth.

Yushisu-The last bloodline?

Captain-Yes, our home no longer exists. Do you wish to know why? <question 2>

Reply Yes to Question 2- By looking at it now, we must regret that we were fools. We knew the evil force, Dark Farusu, existed in our minds, but was unable to suppress it. We soon began to grow fond of controlling the natural world through scientific means. We only recognized we were killing ourselves when the planet began to crumble before our very own eyes. The survivors, which you see now, barely made it to this ship and escaped. We wondered hopelessly through the universe searching for another home. Then we found Algol, your star system. We gloated over your peaceful lives, your lives without the presence of evil. That was when we vowed to ourselves to take over your star system no matter what it took. Soon, we were able to destroy your planet of Parma. Certainly you are no fools to oppose us with such a powerful force, are you not? You shall now die for us and for our future.

Reply No to question 2- Well, certainly it make no sense for you to learn why we ended up like this, since you are going to die anyway is that not right? <question 3>

Reply Yes question 3- We are simply taking what we lost from you, there is nothing else to it. We lost Mother Brain, but with our remaining technology, we will be able to rule Algol with ease. You are the only ones opposing us. Algol shall be ours if you are not present. All of our opposition shall die, including you.

Reply No to question 3- Well, if you wish to hear our desperate struggle, we shall certainly tell you. (goto Reply yes to Question 1)

Reply No to question 1- Yes, we are merely your creators that helped you modernize with Mother Brain's help. (Go to point A)



So as you see, Dark Force in Ps 2 is the same type of Dark Force in PS 3. Dark Force in PS 3 existed in the mind of Rulakir and fed off of him keeping alive.

Dark Force with Lashiec was the same way.

It seems Dark Force feeds of negative energy of individuals.

Apparently the Earthmen also seemed to think the people living in Algo were without evil(Dark Force corruption) So they wanted Algo?

Besides, 3/4 endings of Ps 3 are the same.

Sean - Neo palm joins them and they'll work together in 1000 years when Dark Force rearises.
Crys - 3rd planet from the sun
Aron - Earth and London contact (3rd planet from the SUN)
Adan - 3rd planet from the sun again

Adan - Neo Palm eradicated
Aron - Neo Palm eradicated
Crys - Neo Palm is never seen and could be considered gone
Sean - Neo palm works with them in 1000 years

So we have a 3 out of 4 endings on a 3rd planet from the sun (Could be Earth in all 3).. We also have 3 out of 4 with no neo palm..

SO Dark Force according to 1, 2, 3 can exist outside 1000 year periods..

Hm..


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