Elsydeon

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Elsydeon

Postby thepeaguy » Sun May 23, '10, 12:35 am

I dunno if any of the members here bought this subject up recently on here, but I'll discuss the topic anyway.

Where did Elsydeon orginate exactly? It resembles the blade Alis used to fight Dark Force 2000 years prior to the PS endgame of endgames on PSIV. Though it seems kind of daft to call it the Laconian Sword instead of giving it a title.

My only plausible theory is that the weapon was retconned (verb for retroactive continuity) to fit within the climax of PSIV's story: first it was LS, then the Nei Sword on ps2 (if they're the same weapon - seems likely), and finally "Elsydeon" on ps4.
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Re: Elsydeon

Postby Tanith » Sun May 23, '10, 3:06 am

thepeaguy wrote:My only plausible theory is that the weapon was retconned (verb for retroactive continuity) to fit within the climax of PSIV's story: first it was LS, then the Nei Sword on ps2 (if they're the same weapon - seems likely), and finally "Elsydeon" on ps4.
I agree with this. There seemed to be a lot of retconning in PSIV. Not that I mind too much.

Whether or not Elsydeon is the same sword as Alis's and Rolf's depends in part on what you believe happened to the crew of PSII and what kind of powers the Nei Sword might have had to return itself to... wherever it went next. It would be pretty crappy if the crew still died but the sword had enough power to return itself. Of course, the Elsydeon theory can be applied to the aeroprism as well. If it's the same aeroprism in PSIV, then I'd like to believe that at least some of the PSII characters made it back to Esper Mansion.
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Re: Elsydeon

Postby Thoul » Sun May 23, '10, 3:41 am

Personally, I think Elsydeon and the Nei sword are completely different things. Elsydeon might be Alis' sword, but I lean more toward the concept that Elsydeon is a completely separate item created by the Espers later, possibly after PSII.

Even though laconia is supposed to have special powers and was pretty rare in Alis' time, but it is much more common and unremarkable in PSIV. For PSIV, it's just a high grade of silver and the formally rare sword and armor made of laconia can be purchased in a limitless supply. I find it hard to believe that those store bought swords are the equivalent of Alis' ultimate weapon that Lassic supposedly feared so much. Maybe Alis' sword had some special properties the later laconian swords lacked, I dunno.

The only really unusual laconia item in PSIV, to my mind, is the axe Gryz has late game. It's notable because it's unique and from Motavia. You can't buy a laconian axe on Dezoris, even though laconia is native to Dezoris. That suggests Gryz' axe might have been on Motavia since the time of PSII or even earlier.
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Re: Elsydeon

Postby Rick » Sun May 23, '10, 4:24 am

We could also note that in Alis time, Dezolis wasn't populated by alot of Palmans.

You also have what the eclipse torch does to Laconia..

Eclipse Torch (I, IV [mentioned in II as well])
Once every thousand years, Ryucross draws near to and completely eclipses Motabia. On that day, magic energy from the sleeping spirits of Algol and Ryucross is emitted towards Dezolis, where it is gathered in and filtered through the Aeroprism, irradiating Laconia with a pale green light.
This flame is said to burn until it is extinguished in the next eclipse in 1,000 years' time. It does not emit heat, but the blessing of its light will heal frostbite from any living thing that holds it. Moreover, it will also "draw out" the bearer's true colors and bring to light whether the bearer is "good" or "evil".


Now.. The Eclipse torch bathes Laconia in a special glow through the aeroprism and since Alisa had the aeroprism..

That is why Lashiec feared it. Laconia's properties when bathed by the eclipse torch.

Back in the time of PS 1 with all the religion, the way to show Lashiec was evil was to bring out his true colors. Hence the Laconian Sword..

Then we have PS 1 script:

Arms made of laconia conceal holy power. Lassic fears this power and has been running and hiding in different places in the planets of the Algol System.


Alis also has to get the aeroprism and hold it up..

Now let's go jap PS 1 and we find a mistranslation in english xd Lashiec hid the weapons, not himself.

What? ‘Overthrow LaShiec?’ If you really are going to do that, you must gatherall of the Laconian weapons: Sword, Axe, Shield, and Armor. These weapons are more powerful than any others. I’ll be praying for your safety.
- Weapons made from laconia conceal holy powers, y’know. I heard that LaShiec despises them, so he hid them here and there throughout the planets of Algol.
~Don’t let this get out, but there's a fortuneteller named Damoa who is in posession of a crystal that LaShiec hates. There must be something secret about that crystal.
~It’s ‘Laconia’! Laconian weapons are the strongest [in the solar system].


So my geuss is Laconian weapons in PS 1 have Holy Powers since they are rare and it comes from the Eclipse torch.

Come PS IV.. there is no more churches in Algo so HOLY weapons aren't needed?

Unpure Laconia makes Silver weapons in PS IV, Pure Laconia makes Laconian weapons. Neither is blessed with holy power? Also.. Reflectmail is only on Dezo and it doesn't really help cut down tech damage xd
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Re: Elsydeon

Postby PSP » Sun May 23, '10, 5:25 pm

I always was of the opinion that the original Laconian Sword/Nei Sword/Elsydeon were the same thing. To me, it strengthened the whole "passing of the [sword]" element of the scene in the cavern at the Esper Mansion. Alis, in the English version at least, says the Elsydeon is the "the place where the spirits of those who fought to protect Algo return to." So, to me, that means the sword has existed since PSI times.

So, if it's been around, why not use it? Sure, Khyron will probably say that Lutz gave Eusis a twig that was spray-painted silver and called it the Nei Sword because he was senile or a dick or whatever, but I still say it's the same sword. It increases the sense of one continuous fight, as the sword is passed down with it finally possessing the spirits of all the heroes from PSI, PSII and Alys at the time that it finally kills the Profound Darkness.
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Re: Elsydeon

Postby thepeaguy » Sun May 23, '10, 6:56 pm

Thoul wrote:
The only really unusual laconia item in PSIV, to my mind, is the axe Gryz has late game. It's notable because it's unique and from Motavia. You can't buy a laconian axe on Dezoris, even though laconia is native to Dezoris. That suggests Gryz' axe might have been on Motavia since the time of PSII or even earlier.


This is why I stand by my retcon argument. On PS1, the amount of laconia arms produced were few and far between, and no mention of Dezoris having an abundance of the ore isn't established until ps2 & ps4.

There's no valid reason established in ps1 why a laconian weapon was guarded by some dragon or whatever in a cave when, 1000 years later, you easily buy them from a Dezo shop - Benoit mentioned to me on AIM just now that it was due to minimal exploration of Dezo on PS1, but I somewhat disagree. To me this is a fine example of retroactive continuity here.

For all we know they could have been nei weapons or whatever. Then "Nei" weapons from PS2 were replaced by "Guardian" ones from PSIV.
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Re: Elsydeon

Postby Thoul » Sun May 23, '10, 7:51 pm

Thinking about it more, I realize there must indeed be some special element to the laconia weapons and armor in PS1 beyond just laconia itself. This is because Hapsby, the pilot robot, is also made of laconia. Lassic didn't throw him, or the laconian pots, in a dungeon behind dragons, though. Not that the dungeon hiding approach was very smart in the first place, but still...

If laconia was all that was required, Lassic would have feared someone melting down any object made of the metal and reforging that into weapons. Laconia would have been outlawed entirely. Since that was never put forward as being the case, it must be just these few items that Lassic feared for some reason.

So... if we take the prism thing Rick quoted from the Compendium as true and the reason for Lassic's fear, that could actually explain the whole difference between PS1's laconia and other laconia. In PSIV, the aero-prism had been on Motavia for hundreds of years, so none of the store bought laconia equipment on Dezoris could have those special properties. Although I do wonder where that prism idea came from for inclusion in the book; I don't recall anything like it in the games.

Hm... overall, that makes me feel better about the concept of Elsydeon and Alis' sword being the same. Still, I would have preferred something like that to be directly stated instead of leaving us to assume one way or the other.

PSP wrote:Alis, in the English version at least, says the Elsydeon is the "the place where the spirits of those who fought to protect Algo return to." So, to me, that means the sword has existed since PSI times.


I think Alis was talking about the cave, not Elsydeon. I suppose it could be read either way, though.
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Re: Elsydeon

Postby Rick » Sun May 23, '10, 7:57 pm

My post got lost x.x

I was saying that in PS 3, you have to turn Orakio's sword into the Nei Sword..

Maybe Lutz turned the laconian sword into the Nei Sword?

But then you have the sword of Ango, which states "the mighty weapon of legend that only you can use" and it looks like Alis weapon.

Lutz gave Eusis a twig that was spray-painted silver and called it the Nei Sword because he was senile or a dick or whatever


All that ever matters in RPGS is that you believe. Believe in the power of the twig! Lutz did strand Rolf on Noah.. Didn't even let him go home to heal first.
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Re: Elsydeon

Postby PSP » Sun May 23, '10, 8:03 pm

Thoul wrote:
PSP wrote:Alis, in the English version at least, says the Elsydeon is the "the place where the spirits of those who fought to protect Algo return to." So, to me, that means the sword has existed since PSI times.


I think Alis was talking about the cave, not Elsydeon. I suppose it could be read either way, though.


Hm, good point. Still, part of me likes the interpretation of the sword itself being the place the spirits return to (and it's somewhat supported by Rudy/Chaz having his whole "LSD Flashback" experience when he took up the sword). Makes it more epic on some level having all the protagonists, in a way, take part in the final destruction of the Profound Darkness.

Makes me wonder though. In the remakes, Eusis had his "Royal Guard" technique that had Alisa appear on the screen. If PSIV had been remade, it would have been cool to have Rudy acquire a technique via the Elsydeon that did something similar with the other heroes.
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Re: Elsydeon

Postby Thoul » Sun May 23, '10, 8:16 pm

(and it's somewhat supported by Rudy/Chaz having his whole "LSD Flashback" experience when he took up the sword).


Alis did also say the heroes' thoughts were stored in the sword, so it could go either way. Maybe the spirits linger in the cave, while the sword contains a record of their memories, like the Telepathy Ball does for Lutz.

I can envision Chaz pulling a "Blue Rogues" style special. "Blue Rogues" being a special attack in Skies of Arcadia that calls up every member of the player's pirate ship crew for part of the action. Hm, I sense a topic in this...
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