PSIII: The Satellite, er, Spaceship of Love

I've wanted to start a PSIII topic for a while, but admittedly it's a pretty broad topic. To keep things simple (initially, at least) I've thought of some questions about the game: some things I find bothersome, interesting or confusing. Feel free to answer all or none, and add your own thoughts or questions as well.

What do you think of the importance of marriage in the game? Is it simply a part of the generational tactic Sega used to garner interest in the game, or does it have deeper meaning to the people aboard the Alisa III?

Why are history and tradition seemingly almost entirely oral in this game, and why is it so secretive?

What has happened that would cause technology to be abandoned except for a few villages of important workers that keep the ship running?

Why do the women of Alisa III place so much of their self-worth on finding a suitable partner? Follow-up question: There's nothing to suggest in PSI or PSII that the people of Algo are a patriarchal society, so why has this society reverted to patriarchy, no matter if you're Layan or Orakian?

Finally, (and this question was prompted by the mini discussion in RW's fan art thread) are Layans, particularly direct descendants and particularly females, more than just human? The original Laya was venerated as an almost god in the game, her sister has a blue aura (even years after she was woken from her cryogenic hibernation), Gwyn is clairvoyant, and Layans are the only ones who know how to use techniques. If you do not marry Laya-the-Younger in the second generation, she goes back to sleep. Did she consider herself an important relic rather than someone who could go on without marrying another royal? (What a sad existence, by the way.)

I'll answer my own questions in a minute; I just want to get this posted.

Here are my answers:

What do you think of the importance of marriage in the game? Is it simply a part of the generational tactic Sega used to garner interest in the game, or does it have deeper meaning to the people aboard the Alisa III?
The short answer is yes: I think marriage was a part of using multi-generations as a way to sell the game. Sega could have left marriage out of the equation, but I think they wanted to go the conservative (and safe) route. It can be related to the actual story, though, because it seems to me that the population of Alisa III is sparse. REALLY sparse. Marrying off the royals would be of significant importance to a monarchy.

Why are history and tradition seemingly almost entirely oral in this game, and why is it so secretive?
It might have something to do with Dark Force corrupting the ship. It's apparent (to me, at least) that things only went minimally well when Laya and Orakio joined forces, as their subordinates (Lune, Alair, Rulakir, Siren and Mieu) don't have any knowledge of their alliance. Since word didn't get out, and even Laya's recording for her sister was buried in a particularly inaccessible location and guarded by people who didn't know what was on the recording (at least, I hope that's the case), both Layans and Orakians might have developed a need over time to keep their traditions a secret, out of mistrust of each other. This doesn't really explain why the elders of New Mota and Skyhaven couldn't shed a little light on everything, but perhaps they were stuck in both locations.

What has happened that would cause technology to be abandoned except for a few villages of important workers that keep the ship running?
Again, I'm assuming Dark Force was at play here. Although, the picture of Laya and Orakio encountering each other shows them in fairly primitive garb with primitive weapons. Perhaps this stems way back from the time on Palma when the earthmen, through Mother Brain, were taking over the galaxy through technology. Perhaps the Palmans who escaped wanted to minimize who had access to technology so that something like the Mother Brain network wouldn't happen again.

Why do the women of Alisa III place so much of their self-worth on finding a suitable partner? Follow-up question: There's nothing to suggest in PSI or PSII that the people of Algo are a patriarchal society, so why has this society reverted to patriarchy, no matter if you're Layan or Orakian?
This also has to do with makin' babies, is my guess. An egalitarian society would emphasize more women's rights and birth control, things that the people aboard the ship decided were less important that breeding. Even the stronger women in the game, like Sari, take a backseat in rulership once they marry.

Finally, (and this question was prompted by the mini discussion in RW's fan art thread) are Layans, particularly direct descendants and particularly females, more than just human? The original Laya was venerated as an almost god in the game, her sister has a blue aura (even years after she was woken from her cryogenic hibernation), Gwyn is clairvoyant, and Layans are the only ones who know how to use techniques. If you do not marry Laya-the-Younger in the second generation, she goes back to sleep. Did she consider herself an important relic rather than someone who could go on without marrying another royal? (What a sad existence, by the way.)
I definitely think Layan women got it goin' on! I can't explain the blue aura otherwise, unless it's a permanent effect of her millennium nap. Layans might be descendants of Espers, though the clairvoyance makes me think that maybe they were of a much higher order. I don't think they were immortals, but their powers made them especially important to society and in the case of Laya-Older, she was eventually worshiped as a god. Note: I don't get the same feeling of immortality or veneration from the Orakians, despite Rulakir living for more than a thousand years. I think being kept alive "by hate" was entirely Dark Force's doing. I also don't get the feeling that Orakio was deemed a god the same way Laya was to her people, though at the moment I'm not sure why I feel that way.

On marriage: I think it was just part of the generational aspect of the game, at least in the final version. It seems like it might have been intended to be more at one point. Some bits of the story - like Sari's reaction toward Ayn - hint at it. The game just wasn't able to go into enough depth for it.

On history, tradition, and technology: I agree it's due to Dark Force. When Orakio and Laya finally did join against DF, they told no one. Laya's sister actually saw Laya leave with Orakio, but didn't know it was Orakio. Neither of their top generals (Siren and Lune) knew about the alliance.

To me, this suggests that Orakio and Laya couldn't stop the fighting because of DF's influence on others. The best they could manage was order their people not to kill the other side directly. Then they went around and sealed all the dome passageways and moved the moons to limit the spread of the war. No one was able to move between domes for 1000 years until Maia and Lyle showed up at Landen.

The loss of technology is a side effect of the war and time. Even the best buildings won't stand for 1000 years. The cities became uninhabitable after the war due to damage or age. A ship like the Alisa III has very limited resources; they probably can't go mining for more metals to sustain a factory, for instance. Combine the limited resources, damage, and loss of key people who know how to maintain the tech and they're out of luck.

On women's self-worth: I don't see them as tying their self worth into marriage that much. Royalty can be a bit weird about marriage in general, so I don't think it can used as a real basis for how they view their own worth. I didn't see any evidence that Sari took a back seat at all, for instance. The game says "Ayn and Sari" defended Landen for 20 years, not just Ayn.

On patriarchy: I'd say PSI does give evidence of patriarchy in Algo. Alis' father was king. Lassic was king. Alis becomes queen only because she's the last person of royal blood around, much like Sari taking Landen's throne. The monarchy in general had fallen by PSII, but it's not too surprising that new monarchies might rise after the loss of any other form of government. That is what happens on the Alisa III - the government, whatever form it took before Orakio and Laya, was destroyed by their war. When the domes were sealed, each had to form their own local governments to survive.

On Layans: I dunno. It could be Esper blood or some other connection to magic. The whole concept of only Layans being able to use techniques is very flawed, though. How could technique distribution shops survive in Landen if no one there knows techniques? The pure-blood Orakians we get to control in the game don't know them, but that's just three people. They don't have cyborgs either, because they think Mieu is a Layan. There have to be humans around with techniques.

On Orakio and Laya as gods: Well, there were a few "Thank Laya!"'s thrown out in the game, but no "Thank Orakio!"'s. Orakio actually has real flesh and blood descendants, as well. Laya doesn't. Maybe this makes him more real to the people and less of a mythical legend. One person actually says that Layans worship Laya, too. That word is never used in connection to Orakio.

Thoul wrote:

I didn't see any evidence that Sari took a back seat at all, for instance. The game says "Ayn and Sari" defended Landen for 20 years, not just Ayn.

Maybe I'm reading too much into what I saw in the game, but wasn't Sari, just like the other queens, not sitting on a throne next to Ayn once they were co-rulers? She turned into that same "queen" sprite, right? I don't know, the whole king on the throne, queen has to stand thing has always seemed rather subservient.

About technology: with limited resources, how are new robots being created by Siren? Is he launching old robots? The cyborgs do seem to have a very good regeneration ability; I don't know why it couldn't be applied to other technology on the ship unless it's just too hard or large in scope. (I also have this theory that the domed ships that escaped Palma were actually made out of Palma's landscape (thus making mining possible) and then the climates were altered once the spaceship was completed (or domed off). It would also be much easier to conceal the construction of 400 giant spaceships if it looked like they were just altering the land for resources/research/etc. Different discussion, though, and of course it's me jumping to all sorts of conclusions. )

And you're right about the tech distribution shops in Orakian lands. I hadn't even thought of that. It makes you wonder, though, if techs aren't taught to the royals (or at least in the game's case, all the major Orakians: Rhys, Lena and Sari), who are they being taught to?

You're also right about Alis. I forgot she only inherited the throne through process of elimination. I still think that monarchy and patriarchy is not only an after effect of war but also because of the sparse population. Unfortunately, if you're worried about extinction you have to put men on a pedestal, since if needed, one alpha male can knock up pretty much an unlimited number of females (which is not to say I think any of the men in the game sought to impregnate the entire town; I just think it's relative to a discussion about population problems). This would also explain why no one had any problems with Ayn marrying Thea. Yeah, they're second cousins, but still... ew. And what was Lyle's true relationship with Maia? Was he really THAT bothered by his cousin marrying an Orakian, or did he have some sort of future investment in Maia, too? Were they betrothed?

And on a lighter note, where the flip were all the boats on the Alisa III?????? The boat shortage was quite baffling.

You all should check out Capowski's translation of the original PS 3 script.

The english Phantasy Star 3 was horribly translated and left so much out. If you look at Capowski's translation of Rhys and Ayn's quest..

Nifty things such as Satellite being a FORTRESS.. not just a moon... The Boat owners song is different.. The song in the city in Aquatica is different.. Mieu being only 500 years old.. Marlene using magic and someone commenting on it... What Lyle did being mentioned by the Cyborgs.. Laya is seen differently as is Orakio..

It might give insight and even the compendium says Alisa 3 is a midevil lifestyle. So you have to think back to our midevil times.

Rhys:

http://www.sceneryrecalled.com/trans/ps3jkein.txt

Ayn:

http://www.sceneryrecalled.com/trans/ps3jayn.txt

If you pay attention to the intro dialogue and then pay attention to the Cyborgs in Kein and Ayn's generation, you get a bigger picture. You see things left out!

Tanith wrote:

Maybe I'm reading too much into what I saw in the game, but wasn't Sari, just like the other queens, not sitting on a throne next to Ayn once they were co-rulers? She turned into that same "queen" sprite, right? I don't know, the whole king on the throne, queen has to stand thing has always seemed rather subservient.

That's all true. IIRC though, Ayn also became the generic king sprite. The lack of a throne is a good point, but I think that was just laziness on the developers' part. I don't recall Rhys' father having a queen, so the developers may have just decided that redesigning the castle to accommodate Sari wasn't worth the time.

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About technology: with limited resources, how are new robots being created by Siren? Is he launching old robots?

Good question. He probably is using some old ones - Siren himself is pretty old, after all. We know the 'bots on this ship are made to last, just from looking at Siren and Miun. Once Siren gained access to the domes, he was likely able to search out and activate old bases, with who knows old many 'bots in them.

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The cyborgs do seem to have a very good regeneration ability; I don't know why it couldn't be applied to other technology on the ship unless it's just too hard or large in scope.

Some of it probably could and is. Certainly things like water must be recycled and there must be a near endless supply of fuel for the ship's engines. Even so, eventually material things are going to run out. There's only so much iron that could be on the ship, for instance. Once it's all used up, there's no more to replace it.

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(I also have this theory that the domed ships that escaped Palma were actually made out of Palma's landscape

Sounds interesting, we should give that a topic sometime.

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It makes you wonder, though, if techs aren't taught to the royals (or at least in the game's case, all the major Orakians: Rhys, Lena and Sari), who are they being taught to?

There's really a whole side of the Orakian life we never see. Anytime we're dropped into an Orakian town, it's just for the purpose of starting out on an adventure. Maybe the healers and nurses use them. Possibly the local blacksmith could get some use out of one or two. There might also be wandering non-human cyborgs that come in from the wild for maintenance now and then.

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This would also explain why no one had any problems with Ayn marrying Thea. Yeah, they're second cousins, but still... ew.

Actually, it's very common for royalty to marry within the family like that even in our real world. It might seem icky to us, but for royalty like Ayn or Thea, this is a typical relationship. Good points about Lyle, though. I have to wonder about just what was between him and Thea, too.

Satellite was the old Space Fortress of Orakio so I would geuss robots were kept there. I gather those machines Ayn encounter hadn't been seen in 1000 years.

Materials were scarce. That is why the cities are midevil and once destroyed, never get repaired.

You also have 4 old fortresses belonging to Orakio is Aquatica too.. The fortresses by the passage to Aridia.

Japanese PS 3..

Thoul wrote:

Actually, it's very common for royalty to marry within the family like that even in our real world. It might seem icky to us, but for royalty like Ayn or Thea, this is a typical relationship. Good points about Lyle, though. I have to wonder about just what was between him and Thea, too.

Oh, I understand about royalty inbreeding historically, I'm just not sure why it had to be included in a fantasy game. Authenticity, I suppose. Same with the generic king and queen sprites. Why not make both rulers sitting on thrones? It's not a huge deal to me (and the game was lazy about a lot of things), but it makes some of the dialogue make less sense if in every generation you end in co-rulership. They could have put forth a little more effort to make them appear equal.

What's this about Lyle and Thea? Something was hinted at other than a father/daughter relationship? I'm curious about what happened to Thea's mother, but then I'm also curious about Sari's father. Some interesting mysteries going on there.

Rick - The ruins of Orakio's old fortress are explained in the English version, too. Do they explain in the Japanese version how the robots are getting to the Alisa III if they're coming from Satellite?

Sorry, Thea was a typo. I meant Maia. No idea why I put in Thea. I guess it was too late at night and my brain misfired on that one.

I'm not going to say that every generation definitely has the husband and wife as entirely equal partners, but we really don't have much on which we can base a sound judgment of their status or self confidence in most cases. Most of the queens get maybe one or two lines of dialogue that is essentially "goodbye, be careful!" after 15+ years. That's just not much to go on.

Take Ayn and Thea for example. Thea barely speaks at all, does so after Ayn, and stands in the background behind Ayn's chair. She doesn't seem like an equal ruler there, right? But later, the character designer of the game revealed that there was an entire aspect of Thea's story as a wife and mother that wasn't covered in the game at all. Thea was very ill and weak for years, even to the extent that Mieu had to take over some duties as a caregiver for her son. Even a small mention of that in the game could have changed our perceptions of Queen Thea a lot.

Tanith, these questions are some of the most thought-provoking, intelligent inquiries I've encountered regarding this particular RP game. However, it's been a long since since I've played the game completely through, so I'll try to give my two cents with brevity.

What do you think of the importance of marriage in the game? Is it simply a part of the generational tactic Sega used to garner interest in the game, or does it have deeper meaning to the people aboard the Alisa III?

Often, I jokingly refer to PSIII as "Phantasy Star with mustaches and harems," but to be honest, I think the RP game is meant to be a lenthy quest, and marriage is, thereby, meant to be central. It does make the game all the more interesting with the different directional possibilities. When I first played the game, I remember choosing Maia, but then I didn't really "like" Ayn, or Ayn's quest, for that matter. When I played it again by choosing Lena, I found Nial's quest to be more enjoyable and exciting. So, to answer your question, I think the marriage thing is a little bit of both; for the sake of the storyline, as well as allure.

The choosing of different women who are seemingly just dying to marry you is silly and yes, a bit misogynistic, but it does add interest, and does add to the overall interesting and varying storyline.

Why are history and tradition seemingly almost entirely oral in this game, and why is it so secretive?

I'm among the consensus that Dark Force is to blame. United a people stand, divided they fall, so it's all about division and conquest; military genuises such as Julius Caesar knew this and used it to his advantage. But I think the Orakian versus Layan aspect of the game is what really makes the game so fascinating; it goes to prove how people easily and thoughtlessly discriminate, and have done so throughout history. The notion of discrimination and prejudice is a key message of the game, and I think its overall message is an enlightening one.

What has happened that would cause technology to be abandoned except for a few villages of important workers that keep the ship running?

Seemingly elitist, perhaps? But I agree that it's most likely Dark Force again at play, and the control tactics associated.

Why do the women of Alisa III place so much of their self-worth on finding a suitable partner? Follow-up question: There's nothing to suggest in PSI or PSII that the people of Algo are a patriarchal society, so why has this society reverted to patriarchy, no matter if you're Layan or Orakian?

This is a very anthropological question. Layan culture is ostensibly feminine and probably matriarchal -- even the guys are more feminine in demeanor than the Orakians -- and Laya is worshipped as a goddess. That said, Layan women, however, seem to be more demure than Orakian women; you have Sari and Lena who are real tough gals, and there's not much to suggest that even they are completely taking a step down for the male in a probable patriarchy. I think the eager willingness to marry has much to do with reproducing, and perhaps the idea of having a family in a sparse population was the goal for all.

Finally, (and this question was prompted by the mini discussion in RW's fan art thread) are Layans, particularly direct descendants and particularly females, more than just human? The original Laya was venerated as an almost god in the game, her sister has a blue aura (even years after she was woken from her cryogenic hibernation), Gwyn is clairvoyant, and Layans are the only ones who know how to use techniques. If you do not marry Laya-the-Younger in the second generation, she goes back to sleep. Did she consider herself an important relic rather than someone who could go on without marrying another royal? (What a sad existence, by the way.)

Great question. I think esper blood is one hint, but Laya herself may also be a bit of a demi-goddess. Laya the Younger was most certainly the last immediate family member of the family, so I would say that she is, most certainly, an important relic, probably with a greater purpose.