Phantasy Star: Fringes of Algo

Nice project ! keep up the good work

Ok, here is my complete run down of all I think could be changed on your three songs. Keywords: "I think" and "could". This is my OPINION, it is not the truth or an absolute. We are two different artists so, there is a definite chance that what I think will be of little consequence. Take what you want, use what you need, discard the rest: they're your songs, not mine. Also, nest time I post a remix, make sure to throw the ball back to me.

Mkay. Let's roll. You already know I liked how you balanced your volumes so I won't go into length here. You have next to no audio clipping so, that is good considering it's something very hard to achieve.

First thing first, here is something that applies to your three songs so, I will only write once and elaborate: you really like to mix brass sections and electro strings. It really looks like a "feel" you are looking for but I can't say that I personally think it appropriate for the following reasons. Since you use those two a lot, they drive the mood across all your songs and here is what I think. Laughter, for instance: That track is supposed to be the epitome of dread and fear PS4 has to provide. An upbeat, cheery brass section does not convey fear; it changes the song into something that resembles Ska and I'm fairly certain that Ska has never scared anybody. Another way of seeing it: a brass section makes me expect Zio to stop fighting and break into a tap dance routine. Try something darker, unless it's a feel you were SPECIFICALLY trying to get. Meet them head on: The brass section issue and the trombone that play the main melody; they sound great, they do, but they make me want to dance, not fight. Then again I never liked that song (the original I mean) so, I am biased. Rise or Fall is probably the song where your combo works best, it's still very upbeat/cheery but it works. You'll notice that my first Rise or Fall remix was driven by strings and a trumpet so, there you go.

As for generic comments:
Laughter: A very good product. I love the drum, I really, really do. Great quality, perfect volume, everything works 100%. At 1:45, when you kick in the second part of the song with the high strings, I feel they lack something. Try adding some reverb maybe? You could also try to lower them by an octave; I find that the contrast between the high strings and the low growly bass is too sharp. I still need to say how much I love your choice of drums for this song.

Meet them head on: the very first instrument, the one that plays the intro/very quick notes. It sounds like an orchestra hit coming from an old keyboard synth from the 80s. I understand that working with midi sound fonts must be challenging, considering they are an extremely outdated technology, but I'm sure you can find a better candidate. Seriously though, everything else is fine with it. I'd try sharper instruments for the melody and something somewhat less silly for the intro and you'd have a solid result.

Rise or Fall: Now this song I remixed t twice so, I know by heart, inside-out. I don't feel that your drums are too quiet, they're fine. I really like the brass instrument you use from 0:41, it brings something really cool to the song. As for the only thing I'd have changed: there are incorrect notes in the intro. Listen carefully to the chords playing in the background, there is a dissonance that I'm not sure you want to keep.

And that's that. Solid results that could become legendary with a little polish.

Thing is, i was going for this .. odd.. final fantasy vibe.. and if you play a lot of those games, especially the snes ones, they use strings and brass.. and they don't sound cheery.. i don't feel brass or horns = dancing or even cheery...
For me strings and brass and so forth = adventure and epic and exciting.

The original themes had this heavy techno vibe.. which never sounded right to me in any RPG based in fantasy. But it was because of the Sega Genesis/Megadrive's limited capabilities.
And since i was so used to hearing how snes and later PS1 JRPGs using that style and those types of instruments, i felt i could incorporate them into genesis games.

Horns and strings are kinda my style honestly.

The emotions i was trying to promote in laughter with the horns was not cheery, and i never really felt instrument types are what convey any sort of emotion, but how they are used.

I try to give them this sound that makes you go.."YEAH! Gonna * you up!" in an epic fantasy sort of way.

I have no idea if anything i'm saying makes any sense at all... i just think i hear things differently than you.

As for the reverb.. i have NO idea how to even go about that... limited tools and know-how on my part.

Audacity has some options for such things, but when i try and use the said options, it never wants to work how i want, plus i'm not used to editing such things.

Changing up audio volume and pitch is a "cake-walk" but when you get into things like reverb and echo and so forth.. i end up making things sound far worse in all honesty.

I can try and go back and work on it.. but other instruments i tried just did not convey that "epic fantasy" vibe i was going for.

I'm rather proud of Rise or Fall, i managed to give it the treatment i wanted, the beats are still kinda low though.. i MIGHT fix that.

I wonder... if i made the brass sections deeper toned.. if that would give the vibe you expect... rather not remove the brass sections from Laughter, but if i can make them sound more menacing.. maybe that would work.

Dude, if it's the feel you were looking for, KEEP IT, they are YOUR songs, they should reflect YOUR ideas, you know?


Just so you know, the audio hardware of the Genesis was superior than the one found in the SNES. The Yamaha YM2612 found in the Genesis was one of the best sound chips available before consoles started playing pre-recorded songs like the Sony Playstation did.


But I need to point out we strongly disagree on one point.

The original themes had this heavy techno vibe.. which never sounded right to me in any RPG based in fantasy.

Last time I looked, Phantasy Star was sci-fi


Keep up the good work, show us more songs!


Edit: Oh, see there, I checked my sources and turned out I was wrong about the tech bit. However, this there shows something interesting:

The Snes sound chip was technically superior in number of sound channels, sample quality, among other things. The fact is though that even though it was a better chip, it still was more suited to a certain type of sound, in this case being more orchestral.

Genesis being a synth (YM2612), was better at techno and drum and bass music, while most of the time, the Snes drum samples and bass felt very flat and muffled. The Snes was way better at orchestration though, as usually the music sounded much fuller and more vibrant due to more sound channels.

Seeing how I prefer techno and you prefer orchestration, everything makes sense!

I was gonna go into this rant about the sound chips and what not.. but.. i feel it's way off topic for a thread about a fan game.. just saying.
-edit- you beat me to the rant and the point i was thinking about making lol -end edit-

I actually have a genesis sound font BTW, and i was using them in conjunction with other instruments at one point.. but they sounded super funky... funky bad i mean.. like the odd mix of SNES like instruments and genesis beats and so forth and bass just sounded uber(uber is not a word to me.. i just don't have a word that's higher than super lol.)bad and odd..
I even got an 8bit sound font i found on the nets.
I think i got laughter to sound better BTW.. i mean the brass was a rather high pitch and did kinda sound less menacing. I just gotta remix in something to help with it.
I think i can improve it.

Actually the Phantasy Star series has always had this odd mix of sci-fi and D&D like fantasy, it's very evident in the first Phantasy Star, the 3RD Phantasy Star and the 4th one. Phantasy Star 2 i can agree was VERY sci-fi.
And if you think my music does not fit, go listen to the music in the remakes of Phantasy Star 1 and Phantasy Star 2... Phantasy Star Generation 1 did this horrible casual leasurly remix of the Palma Overworld.. and Generation 2 botches a lot of the themes from the original genesis version to the point that i just cringe.
Find the theme Power, listen to the genesis version and listen to the Playstation 2 generation 2 version.. all the notes that used to be long are all cut off. I find it cringe worthy at how horrible a job they did... well it was a horrible job to me anyhow.

And you're right, i do prefer orchestral... that's why i'm going for this vibe.. orchestral music with an awesome beat just sounds reallly REALLY good to me.

All good buddy.

And I feel the same way about the PS2 remake. I wrote my Death Trance remix precisely to make that point.

Keep the orchestral vibes going, I'll take care of the techno and all will be good with the world.

I just want to add.. other than orchestral, i also like rock and metal.. and in fact i am not a super huge fan of techno.. though i do think some synth in music adds something...

I was going to remix that one theme.. the one that's super techno sounding... but i sat back and went "there is just NO way to improve this theme. what am i gonna do? make the instruments sound like different techno?"

myau56 wrote:Nice project ! keep up the good work

Thanks, sorry it took me this long to replay.
I'm trying to get some stuff done for it... but having somewhat of a hard time..

No one ever gave their thoughts on if i should go for a more Phantasy Star 1 vibe or a PS4 vibe or maybe mix it up when it comes to dungeons.. some overhead some not.
I know i want to have a few mountains in my game and that just won't work with first person.. so those will be overhead.

I'd say overhead.

I LOVE a good first person dungeon crawler, but without mouse support, it's just boring. If you're gonna go for the 16 it RPG feel, overhead is your man.

Well.. i mean.. have you ever played Phantasy Star 1? My dungeons pretty much have that feel..
I guess i should have asked if i should do just FPDs or do FPDs and overhead type dungeons some times.
My FPDs don't work anything like the type you see in PC RPGs, a mouse pointer would not be needed.
This is where i need to make a video showing footage of the FPDs to give folks a better idea of what i'm working on.
But basically if you ever played the very first Phantasy Star, my FPDs work just like they do in that one, interacting with things is as simple as hitting a key on the keyboard, and chests appear kinda out of nowhere like they do in PS1, and then prompt you to choose what to do, open them or not.
Later i wish to integrate the option to use a skill that checks for traps just like in PS1.
Battles are random and work the same as they do any other time in the game as well.
A mouse pointer is usually used in PC WRPGs where you select something and drag and drop it.. or getting into battle is just.. running into something where you start clicking a thing with the mouse to strike over and over.
I'm going for a 16 bit tribute to Phantasy Star 1 2 and 4.
And it's not really boring as finding your way around is the challenge, and even then i have things set up so you can get a feel for where you might be without it becoming too easy or too hard.
In all honesty i rather not do without them totally, but some types of locations being in first person is just not going to work anyhow.

If i do the whole.. tech like facility areas like in PS2 and 4, then i think overhead is best.
But if say something like a cave or dungeon, first person is rather fun.

I loved Phantasy Star 1, i had so much fun.. and i just wanted to recreate some of those types of moments in my games, to feel like PS1

Of course I played PS1. Except for PS Zero and the ones on the Playstation Portable, I played and finished every Phantasy Star game repeatedly.

PS1's dungeons, to me, were boring. Now, it IS possible to make console dungeon crawlers a bit more fun. Shining in the Darkness and Shining the Hold Ark did that with many interesting devices. Phantasy Star 1 however was an 8 bit game with limited memory. All you could do was walk, turn, open door, open chest. The overhead gives the pretty much the same limited options, but the visual experience is enhanced.


If you think it's fun, knock yourself out, as I repeatedly said: it's your game.