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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, '08, 2:35 pm 
Quote:Noah (or Lutz if you want) who fought Lassic and Dark Force 2000 years did die

I agree with you, but I believe Lutz is still alive in PSII (AW1284). Now that I think a little more about it, I have the impression that it's mistranslation, because everyone there is talking about Lutz and suddenly this person says "the glorious man is buried here".

Probably "buried" was not the most appropriate word to describe cryogenic sleeping (since Lutz only died at AW1299). I'm almost sure if they retranslated this word they would not used "buried" which by definition is "the act of placing a person or object into the ground". In any case I don't see an alternative word for this since "space burial" have no ground to dig too and is similar this Lutz situation.

About the old-man:

Quote:It wouldn't be a reference to Myau in my eyes, whether Myau is the Old Man or not, since Myau will be considered a cat and not called a man. To go a bit off topic, recently I have started to think that the Old Man is a descendant of Myau, since he says that the Silver Tusk has been handed down for generations. If he really had been Myau, it wouldn't have been handed down to him from generations since it was acquired for him by Alis in PSI.


Yes, only cats threat Myau (or not) by Man, I don't think humans would call him by that. If he really is Myau is being discussed in: http://www.psalgo.com/bb/myau-or-not-vt ... torder=asc
I use "Phantasy Star: Sealed Memories as a shield", since that was done 1 year after the releasing of PSIV. I think they may have corrected some questionable aspects like "the generation after generation" thing. In PSdrama says that a blue haired man trusted "nei claw" to a family after AW1284 and would come back to retrieve it. The thruth is that he never came until AW2281 and since that time this special weapon "as been handed down for generations" like Roy said. The last person to carry that nei claw was Nei3rd, but she went to SEED's dome and died before Rika was born. How did nei claw reach Myau in Dezolis only Rune can tell...

I think espers are related to "newman project" (because of the symbols both carrys). In my opinion Lutz gave that weapon to Roy's ancestors because apparently their village is the nearest one to Nei's Silver Dome. But there’s one thing I'm certain: if the blue haired man was Lutz and said he would get nei claw back I think he is a man of word and would do it as promised... and before the ultimate battle against PD.

Now about Odin: In AW 1268 we (an agent) found in Dezolis a lost (laconian) Axe near a (wild) Dezoris Cat (A starving musk cat?) which seems to be guarding it. This is certainly a reference to Odin although no one can be sure if it is his axe. Eventually this agent returns to Motabia with Lila's gem and musk cat's axe 16 years before the great collapse (and we don't know what happened to him, nor the objects).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, '08, 11:23 pm 
About that glorious man line, here's a thought I had. Maybe it is a mistranslation, but what if the mistranslation is in the "man" part rather than the "buried" part? We know that the Espers have a great reverence for Alis. Do you suppose she might be buried at the mansion sometime after her return from PS Gaiden?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, '08, 1:43 am 
I don't know if that happens in Japan but in my country "Man" (in general sense) can mean both man (stritus sensu) and woman, so it is very possible they could be talking about Alisa.

In PSIV we can see all those statues spread all over Esper Mansion, especially in worship room ("worship"... the "glorious" one, in esper mansion this can only fits in Lutz or in Alisa as we can see by the statues). It is a matter of PSII vs PSIV graphics but I believe those statues were already there in PSII.

She also has a different statue underground of the mansion (near the telepathy ball/cryogenic room/"lutz tomb") which I personally believe it is her tomb, since her ghost (the only ghost that appears) came out from it and talked to Chaz.

It's something like this: if a spirit is near/inside his body it can talk normally but if is completely out (in a blade instead) can only communicate by shining it... so my answer is yes.


Edit:
Another thing is that (at least in PSgen2) Lutz seams he can personally talk with Alisa, because he knew she was giving dreams (and precisely what dreams - her death* in DF battle)** to Rolf (which he knew from the beginning to be her last descendent***), as a warning and also Lutz could hear her * (from her tomb, perhaps?).


--

* - I think she died in the battle against DF... there's a some evidences about it like PSII Rolf dreams and PSI extra scene where she dies and then resurrects again, thanks to Rolf, I mean, her half-brother spirit who told her she needed to come back to life to fight once again “Alis hears Nero’s voice in the depth of her soul; “You’ll be reborn to fight for peace again.” Alis resurrected.” It is said to be a pretty nice link to PS Gaiden’s story.
** - «Beautiful Alis, was fighting the dark force in that dream.»
*** - «So you are the last descendant of Alis who fought to protect Algo.»
**** - «What woke me was Alis' scream.»



Anyway, many years latter Lutz (Rune) seems to have talked with her too, probably about the person he would select to take Elsydeon. «So you are Chaz whom Rune selected...». We must also remember that they (Alisa and Rune) seemed to be watching Chaz before Zio destroyed Molcum «Chaz, that's what you said your name was, right? Hmmph, what a stupid name!». In both cases, Chaz never said his name.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, '08, 6:48 pm 
I never really put much thought into it before, but looking at them now, Tyler and Odin do kind of look alike. It's too bad that Tyler doesn't join you--I wonder if he would be like Odin battle wise too?


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 Post subject: Re: Odin and Tyler
PostPosted: Sat Jul 3, '10, 6:16 am 
Thread necromancy! *zombies attack*

Sorry, but as I'm searching for flags I came across this gem of a topic, and I have relevant information!

According to Rebecca Kapowski's "Translation Junk Drawer" page, Tyler was originally supposed to be Odin's (Tylon's) descendant. Check it out:

http://www.sceneryrecalled.com/trans/ps.htm

It's under the description for the link to Phantasy Star I, II, and II "Best Character" Ranking. She says the information about Tylon/Tyler appears in The World of Phantasy Star, so at one point Sega did consider making these two characters related.

I personally consider them ancestor/descendant, 1) because it's interesting, 2) because all the characters from PSI except Odin are given some kind of post-game history and tie-in to the other games.


Last edited by Tanith on Sat Jul 3, '10, 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Odin and Tyler
PostPosted: Sat Jul 3, '10, 3:53 pm 
Well, since this thread has already been resurrected...

The whole "buried" thing is definitely a translation issue, as is the "man" part...but not as you guys were surmising. The original lines said by the Espers in PSII are as follows:

* The warriors who protected Algol now sleep in peace here.
* He told us that he shall once more awaken, when you and your men arrive here.
* He had been placed under cold sleep in order to wake up in the future and protect it.
* He had decided to hide here in Dezoris when Mother Brain appeared.
* He rises from his eternal sleep every decade.
* We protect him, since it is our duty that was passed on from every generation.

So, taken literally, all the protagonists from PSI are buried at the Esper Mansion by the time of PSII (Lutz being the single exception, in that he isn't dead but in a state of cold sleep). Which makes me wonder, we all have made the link that the Old Man is Myau...but is that actually said anywhere? I don't see it in the Compendium.

-Corey


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 Post subject: Re: Odin and Tyler
PostPosted: Sat Jul 3, '10, 4:09 pm 
PSP wrote:Which makes me wonder, we all have made the link that the Old Man is Myau...but is that actually said anywhere? I don't see it in the Compendium.

There's nothing on this anywhere. It's really for you to decide. I've always felt that Old Man is just another Musk Cat. I think they have some way of sharing memories through generations which would explain why the ones who let you into the cave as well as some of the others there and the Old Man say they have some sort of remembered feeling.


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 Post subject: Re: Odin and Tyler
PostPosted: Sat Jul 3, '10, 8:02 pm 
PSP wrote:The warriors who protected Algol now sleep in peace here.


I find that line very interesting, much more so than the "buried" version in the English game. It fits nicely with one of Alis' lines from PSIV: "This is the place where the spirits of those who fought to protect Algo return to..." Perhaps PSII was trying to tell us that the spirits of Alis, Odin, and Myau were already at Esper Mansion. The bodies could be literally buried somewhere else, but their spirits could be in the Elsydeon cave already.

Or for an alternative take, could this line mean some of those warriors, other than just Lutz, are in cold sleep? That may be a stretch, since the games don't show it, but we know Alis did use cold sleep during her life.


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 Post subject: Re: Odin and Tyler
PostPosted: Sat Jul 3, '10, 8:41 pm 
Oh! Oh! I just thought of something:

Let's say Odin and Tyler are of the same lineage. If Odin's body or spirit or whatever rests in Esper Mansion, would that be a good reason why Tyler eventually started a colony on Dezolis? Perhaps he felt a connection?

*starts pondering ideas for fanfic*


Last edited by Tanith on Sat Jul 3, '10, 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Odin and Tyler
PostPosted: Sat Jul 3, '10, 9:10 pm 
One could go so far as to consider that Tyler and the Espers might have been in contact. Since both were rebelling against Mother Brain's authority, there could be an actual alliance between them. Tyler could feed the Espers the latest news around Algo, ferry people and supplies to them, and perhaps run other errands. In exchange, the Espers could be giving him a place to make port on Dezoris and other aid.

And plus, we know Lutz was keeping track of Alis' descendants to some degree, so why not have him do the same with Odin's? That way if there was ever a need, Lutz could try to get the band back together after a fashion.


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