Noah and Lutz

Quest for justice and vengeance with the beginning of the saga.

Re: Noah and Lutz

Postby PSP » Sat Jan 12, '08, 3:03 am

The $ Avenger wrote:If you go by "canon", meaning exactly what is said in games, then the simple solution is that Noah and Lutz are two different people.


Negative. If you go by exactly what is said in the games, all 3 of the Algo chapters that is, then it's clearly stated that Noah was the first generation Lutz. I could see people saying that Lutz from PSII isn't Noah going solely by the English translations, but it's still a bit of a stretch.

Personally, I always found Ripplinger's theory to be grasping at straws desperately. I never understood it either, since eliminating Lutz from PSII being Lutz from PSI destroys an important link between the two games (and with PSIV as well, since Kyra/Shess' first mention of Lutz is obviously meant to conjure a belief that Lutz is still alive even 2000 years after PSI).

-Corey
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Postby SparkyIII » Sat Jan 12, '08, 6:31 pm

Ya know, we must sound like a bunch of nerds trying to figure out the scientific, historical, and whateverifical past present and future of a video game. XDDDD
Everything has a pattern. Something set. Even random things. They aren't random at all, its complex mathematics. The trick is to find the pattern. Then you can exploit it.

People think things have a certain end. Taxes. Work. Due dates don't really exist. Trust me. When you put a band of world scholars in the same room, and set them on talking about anything, the most interesting topics come up. The existence of negative time. The probability of "random occurrence". The government's involvement in the media. And falsified due dates. They aren't real, trust me....
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Postby Celeith » Sat Jan 12, '08, 6:58 pm

*nod nod*
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Postby Thoul » Sun Jan 13, '08, 11:47 pm

It's fun though, so there's nothing wrong with caring about the story. :D
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Postby newsblade » Mon Mar 31, '08, 6:20 pm

«The first generation Lutz and his companions fought a man in the Air Castle... That man's name was Lashiec! (…) Lashiec was defeated by the first generation Lutz!» (Rune, PSIV)

That’s passive that Noah is Lutz. But… is Noah the same person that appears in PS2 witch calls himself “Lutz”? Rippley’s followers state that Lutz from PS2 is “Lutz the 2nd”, being merely a title, while Noah is “Noah Lutz” (Lutz – the 1st) like Rune is “Lutz – the 5th“.

I could see people saying that Lutz from PSII isn't Noah going solely by the English translations


They say that Lutz from PS1 is not the same guy from PS2 which would be okay if Rune hadn’t said also: «The first generation of Lutz stored the Aero-Prism in the Soldiers' Temple!».

We usually mention the last person who placed the objected in someplace, just like this: “who have dropped my keys over there!?!” or “where did you put my keys?… yes, you! You were the last one to use it, weren’t you?”… so Lutz from PSII is Lutz1.

For the ones who are not satisfied with the answer: in PSII, when Rolf came to see Lutz, he received the Aeroprism (note that Lutz was sleeping when Rolf appeared). After the events of PSII Lutz-PSII built Solider’s Temple (an homage to the 2nd generation protectors), on the place that Parma’s meteorite fell, to store the aero prism there.
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Postby hugues » Mon Mar 31, '08, 10:59 pm

I played PSII first and then the original Phantasy Star.. when I met Noah I automatically assumed he was Lutz and it was just a bad translation between the games (like the planet names).

From a storytelling standpoint, it is so much cooler to meet someone from the original cast than a totally random dude who likes to sleep for years on end.
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Postby Celeith » Tue Apr 1, '08, 9:31 am

the dialog in Generations II says that the Lutz in PSII is the same Lutz from PSI. Plus you can look at his pics from both the games, I'd say when Eusis (I refuse to call him Rolf) meets Lutz on Dezo he possibly aged just a few years or so before he entered the chamber for his 1000 year rest. Hell if you look at when you first meet Lutz in Generations 1 and then meet him in Generations 2 he's wearing the same exact uniform. Same facial expressions. Alot is the same so I say yes to him being the same person.
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Postby newsblade » Tue Apr 1, '08, 3:30 pm


the dialog in Generations II says that the Lutz in PSII is the same Lutz from PSI
The problem of those people is that they say there are two separated universes: the overseas and the Japanese, so any argument related with the J version will be scraped by them. This means that only US manuals and US games are canon... they even have a calculator to convert space centaury into AW.

Because only our occidental translation counts to them, I found another explanation that supports theirs theory:
Noah is actually a robot. He used parts to simulate magic. After PSI, he blasted into space. But what no one knew is that inside Noah's robotic body, there were Earthmen! Yes, the robot was a ship on its own, with microscopic life in it. You actually get resized when teleporting to the Noah in PSII!


That's why there are so many religions... but, thankfully, we have PSIV to make it clear.


I'd say when Eusis (I refuse to call him Rolf)

Yes, it looks like the dog's name from the muppets show.


he possibly aged just a few years or

At least 7 years (not more imo) because after defeating Lasshic he found out the seal was getting weaker. That certainly was when he decided to perform the cryogenic sleep. I don't know if Alis was aware of that too since we don't have enough evidence about when she departed to Copto.
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Postby Celeith » Tue Apr 1, '08, 9:14 pm

*nod nod*

I only said that because I've begun to learn basic katakana, kanji and other japanese and I'm at the point to where I first meet Lutz on Generations II and from what he says, as well as one of the espers inside the building they also say that he is the same guy who fought with Alis in the past.
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Postby Fogeltje » Wed Apr 2, '08, 1:32 pm

Since Ripplinger's theories were mentioned, I decided to read them again. I share the opinion that he is grasping straws, in fact, some of the arguments he provides oppose his theory in my eyes and support that Lutz is indeed supposed to be Noah.
"Rolf, there's no hope for me. If Neifirst is dead, I must die, too."
And in so saying, Nei silently closed her eyes.
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