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Elisa (February 2012)

Elisa (February 2012)

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 Post subject: Re: Elisa (February 2012)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, '12, 5:16 am 
I understand what you're saying Areo. But I actually quoted what Moonlight Shadow was saying not Xander.

Moonlight Shadow wrote:
I agree with Xander (even if I don't know about an half of his rules !)

Aeroprism wrote:
I don't believe Xander offered you rules. I believe he offered you tools and guidelines.

I believe the same thing I don’t understand why you thought, I thought his advice and tutorials he provided for me were perceived by me as rules. They’ve been great and I really appreciate them, my reply to him should have made that clear.

On another note thanks for showing an interest. Also I read what you said in your very first sentence, don’t ever think you’re uninvited; your opinion is always welcome, please do not think otherwise.

 Post subject: Re: Elisa (February 2012)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, '12, 7:25 am 
Lucas wrote: Now the most important thing when it comes to drawing even though I’m obviously not at your level, make sure you’re having fun while you’re doing it, otherwise what’s the point?

Although I'm not an artist at all, I absolutely agree with the statement above. I think that is true not only as it pertains to art and drawing but in every facet of everything anyone does in life as a whole. Have fun at what you do and enjoy it while doing it.

I think Elisa is very cute, and she's a happy soul here in this pic. Love her dress, her hair, and the flower in her hair is an excellent accessory. Look forward to seeing more of Elisa. :)

Last edited by Silver_Surfer1 on Wed Feb 22, '12, 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

 Post subject: Re: Elisa (February 2012)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, '12, 1:30 pm 
This is actually an interesting discussion and I'd like to take it to the next level.

Don't get me wrong Lucas, I commend your attitude, you clearly said you wanted to try some of the tips Xander provided. Whether they end up being useful to you or not will be entirely up to your own preference of course. Let it also be clear that I never said you had no talent, I never did. What I did say, and say again, is that your talent is static, frozen in time. Progression is such a beautiful thing.

It's just the "There are no rules" bit that irked me. Allow me to elaborate on the rules a bit more. (This is pretty much what the remainder of my post will be about, if the topic of RULES vs CRAFTS puts you to sleep, skip to the next reply!) Thinking about it, I think I managed to come up with a few basic examples of what I meant.

You can't have rules for generic drawing because generic drawing is... well, generic. Just as there are no rules to simply putting random words on paper and there are no rules to producing disorganized music.

But if you want to write a novel, you need to respect paging, spelling, punctuation. You need verbs in your sentences. You need a plot. If you want to write an essay, you need an intro, a conclusion. Those are rules.

When you make music, if you make classic, old-school techno, you need to stay above 144 BPMs and you need a leading bass track. If you write classic metal, you need your guitars, your bass and your drums. If you want to write hardcore, you need a certain level of bass distortion. If you write opera, you need lyrics. Those are also rules.

The same goes for drawings. If you draw a building, there are rules. If you draw a portrait, there are rules. You can't draw someone and add two more arms if what you want to do is a portrait. You can't just draw a floating roof and call it a building.

Regarding what Bragatyr said: I have been remixing and composing for what... 12-14 years now? I can't read music to save my life. I do it all by ear. Many good musicians do actually. I however respect the rules of the style I try to tackle. Sometimes I bend them a bit, I explore what comes right on the other side.

But a complete disregard? It happens, in all fields and apparently, it's popular! Drawing? I don't think that Picasso ever followed any rules. People might even argue that he made his own new set of rules. It is also probably why I think that his craft as a whole is a ludicrous waste of my time. Yet they sell for more than I'll make in my entire life. Guess the guy was a genius at marketing, or I'm just close minded.

Music? Have you ever listened to a group called "The Mars Volta"? Some of my friends swear it's the best thing EVER. With me, it's the straightest path to a kick in your shins and a baseball bat to your speakers. I firmly and sincerely believe that these people do "whatever" with their instruments and call it music. The musician in me weeps and rages every time I hear their songs. Yet, hugely popular with a certain crowd.

As for writing, besides reading a wall of text of smiley-filled internet lingo, I can't really think of anyone who has ever pulled off writing with a complete disregard of rules.

Now the interesting question is: Now that we know that there are rules. Do we HAVE to follow them? Art IS an expression of the soul after all.

I eagerly await your collective take on this question.

 Post subject: Re: Elisa (February 2012)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, '12, 8:00 pm 
I think there is two approaches. The need/envy to be better, and the happiness of doing what you like. The two are not exclusives about each other. By "rules", I did'nt mean absolute rules carved in marble. Everyone knows there are as many styles as artists (simple example, City Hunter and Dragon Ball Z, they are two mangas, but two different styles... I won't speak about more "noble" styles, like Luis Royo or Ayami Kojima, their talent drive me crazy !), so more guidelines as that was said.

After all, at amateur state like us, I think enjoying what we do is the most important, I admit that sometimes I forget it (and I'm in a state "damn when I'll finish this drawning"). But I think too that improving our skill is a source of enjoyment. So... Keep on going !

 Post subject: Re: Elisa (February 2012)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, '12, 10:17 pm 
BRAGATYR : I totally agree ! All persons have styles or characters that differs and that's for the best ! Otherwise, the world will be so boring...We all have our proper experiences and way of life and all of the sorts...that we can share with the others !:)

 Post subject: Re: Elisa (February 2012)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, '12, 5:32 am 
Elisa you’ve caused quite the debate in mixed opinions sweetie. :lol:


All right let’s give this ago shall we.

First of all I must apologise first as my statement I made earlier as there being no rules in drawing pictures is in more ways than one incorrect. What I was more aiming for was as you already said yourself generic drawings, drawings by people who don’t do it for living, people that draw for fun, people that feel like drawing random and abstract images, things like that.

Now when you described the “rules” earlier as being guidelines and forms of structure to help develop something, that’s what I agreed with you on. As you said earlier if you’re designing a building you must follow certain rules (“guidelines”) or else the final product will not succeed. Meaning the actual physical building itself.

Picture this situation, say somebody is telling two people to draw a car and giving only one of the artists guides and tips on how to draw a car and not giving the other person any information what so ever. Regardless of how realistic (or socially accepted) one car drawing looks to the other that doesn’t change the fact they that they are both picture drawings of cars. One of them was drawn following guidelines the other was drawn without following any rules at all. Now does that car drawn without rules mean that it’s not a picture of a car at all and we can label it “whatever” because no guidelines were followed during its development? In all truth I can’t answer this question as this part comes down to the individual viewing it.

Regardless of whether it is a drawing of anything or not, at one point in time there were no rules at all, this came down to the individual(s) who would do something and accept the outcome of it.

As for your last question, that once again comes down to the individual performing the action.

I’m not going to elaborate to much more; I’ll probably end up repeating myself or saying something stupid, I don't think I'm making to much sense anymore. Whether you agree with anything I said, or think my brain is cracked coconut is up to you. I don’t mind, you’ve made me think too much after a hard day of work :faint: . In all seriousness though, thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers Areo. :)

~ And thank you too all the other members for your advice, ideas and support toward this drawing. You’re all awesome. :grouphug:

 Post subject: Re: Elisa (February 2012)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, '12, 1:04 pm 
Lucas, you pretty much summed the two most important rules anyways:

-Unless you do this for money, you need to have fun or else, what's the point.

-The result is as easy to debate as is the intent.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, it was a good, if a little short debate, I enjoyed it completely.

Keep on drawing!

 Post subject: Re: Elisa (February 2012)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, '12, 5:07 pm 
Everyone who draw : continue to do it ! And Aeroprism : continue with your remixes ;)

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