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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, '15, 2:18 pm 
Disneyland is not looking like a land of joy right now. ... rn-n291426

Measles is one of those diseases we came to the edge of eradicating, but due to false information about vaccines that made it out, it's on the edge of a comeback due to an unvaccinated cluster of people visiting the park. Vaccines protect not just individuals but also others through herd immunity. Infected folks are likely to carry the virus out of the park to their homes, and spread it to others. And unlike ebola (which the media was all over) measles spreads easily through the air like flu. And it can kill.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, '15, 11:48 pm 
Been hearing a lot about this on the news lately. Hope everyone gets well from this soon. I was very surprised to hear that several States (over 15 I think) have laws or such that they are not required to be vaccinated because of religious or other reasons. That is crazy!! We had no such choice years ago when I was a kid and were just given the shots, medicines, whatever. While I can understand and support people's right to choose in many things, when it comes to killer diseases such as this and others, to me that overrides amost anything else. Also new arrivals who plan to visit and live in the USA should be vacinnated for all diseases, I think.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, '15, 1:27 am 
Ugh, I live in California. :( It astounds me that the richest parts of SoCal have vaccination rates as low as (or lower than) some developing nations. That is LUDICROUS. You're right, Wolf Bird, measles is a highly contagious, airborne virus like the flu. It's only going to get worse if these vaccination naysayers continue spreading misinformation and scaring people out of vaccinating their children.

Last edited by Tanith on Sat Jan 24, '15, 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, '15, 6:48 am 
I feel that denying your child vaccinations is child endangerment, not only to children but to other children they come in contact with at school or day care.
The reason that an outbreak like this occurs, or like the recent years outbreaks occur, is because of the lack of vaccination in recent years. If a child doesn't get their DPT vaccine, diphtheria, pertussis, and tetanus: they are putting themselves and others at serious risk for serious disease infection. And children, along with the elderly, and the ill, don't have the strongest immune systems of a 20 or 30-year-old person to fight off infections, so the results are definitely more severe or that at risk population. So while a 20 or 30-year-old parent might think that an infection from those agents are no big deal and that people will get better, that is not the case for everybody, especially children.

And this is only based on facts. Refusing a vaccination not based on any factual data, but instead based upon hearsay, convoluted or misrepresented stories, and on unsubstantiated beliefs among other reasons. Any websites or places organizations claiming to have data, doesn't have non-biased, objective, peer-reviewed data free from any influence.

It's the same way in a hospital – – if you refuse to get vaccinated for hepatitis B or get your flu vaccine, or refuse to get a tuberculosis screening, you put yourself, your coworkers, and the patients and their families all at risk— and if you refuse to get those vaccinations and screenings, you lose your job. if you put people around you at risk, there is no justification for that, and that risk makes people lose their jobs out of concern for safety. Maybe some of these parents should lose their children and have them put in better care, for safety.

Then again, I don't have children, so my personal opinion might just be that: personal.
No offense to any of you lovely people and your views on vaccination.
So please don't mistake my personal opinions as some sort of personal attack.
That's all I will say, I promise.
**Drags away his soap box**

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, '15, 7:14 am 
Mandatory vaccinations are basically the reason that many diseases have all but disappeared in developed countries or even worldwide. Smallpox is gone thanks to a vaccine and is probably the biggest infectious killer in human history. Whooping cough (AKA pertussis), polio, mumps and measles are things that fell under the almost gone category. But then that one study linking the MMR (measles mumps rubella) vaccine to autism was published. The paper was later found to be fraudulent, the author had undisclosed conflicts of interest, and that link has been falsified countless times now. But it got out there, and we started allowing vaccine exemptions for non-health reasons. It's one thing to be unvaccinated because you're allergic to eggs, and vaccines are often cultured in eggs, or you're immune compromised, or other health reasons, and there are many. It's another to refuse because you'd rather believe a celebrity over the entire medical community. This is the result of that. Infectious diseases we thought we were done with start making comebacks.

Getting vaccinated protects not just you, but also the people around you. Get enough people vaccinated and it can put a pretty quick stop to a disease's abilty to spread. Herd immunity is a thing and when it's not there, disease takes hold.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, '15, 2:59 pm 
Parma Ham wrote:I'm not a part of the vaccination debate, but I just wanted to make a clarification:

There's a big difference between refusing to vaccinate on conscientious or religious grounds, and refusing to vaccinate because of the influence of pop culture or inadequate research. It may be that most people who refuse to vaccinate are uninformed and irresponsible, but that's not true of every last individual who might decide to refuse vaccines.

Again, I'm not advocating for or against the use of vaccines.

You know what, though? I actually don't care about someone else's conscientious or religious grounds when it comes to something that can physically harm so many people, and I don't believe they should be a reason for being able to opt out of vaccinations. As the people above me have stated, it's utterly RIDICULOUS that vaccination (and disease) rates have gotten to where they are in some areas of what's supposed to be one of the most developed countries in the world. It doesn't matter if you're not vaccinating your kids because your church tells you not to or because that twit Jenny McCarthy tells you not to. The end result is the same.

(General "you" for all the following:) Obviously, I fully support religious freedom and you can believe in whatever you want to believe, whether it's Christianity, Islam, Scientology, or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or anything in between. Do what you want to do to achieve spiritual well-being as long as it doesn't negatively impact anyone else. If you're against vaccines for whatever "conscientious or religious" reason and you refuse to vaccinate your children, that's great if you're planning on never leaving the house, or if you live on a remote commune somewhere. But if you're sending your kids to public school with my kids, or out in public in general where I and so many other people are legitimately immunocompromised, barring any actual medical reason (such as an allergy), they should be vaccinated. Period. Full stop. The end.

(I am very, very thankful to live in an area where this doesn't seem to be an issue. I hope it stays that way, and I hope our public schools remain firm on their vaccination requirements.)

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, '15, 9:35 pm 
I happened to be watching the TV show "Last Man Standing" starring actor/comedian Tim Allan last night (Friday) on ABC and they were having a similar discussion on his daughter getting her child vaccinated, or not. The daughter was against it and the father of the child and everyone else was for it. They were having a good debate stating all the reasons, etc. It finally came out that the reason the daughter was against it was that she had heard or read all of the bad effects or things that could possibly happen to the child because of taking the vaccine. I don't remember what they were, but I have heard of bad reactions (even death sometimes) that other medicines or drugs could possibly cause. That kind of made me feel for her and see another side of this debate. However, I do think any possible bad reaction is very rare although it might happen in some cases, and you have to decide which is the worse scenario...a very rare possible bad reaction or possible death because of not being vaccinated. Of course there are going to be some people who should not take various shots or drugs for other various health reasons, etc., and they should discuss what precautions they can take with their doctors, etc. Or even discuss these bad things that rarely happen with your medical physician also and perhaps they can set your mind at rest, etc. People need to be more informed on the specific diseases and treatments and then maybe they will be more open to taking care of themselves and their families and thus everyone around them also.

On another note too, I know that some of the refusals may be due to religious concerns, etc., but this is not the reason why everyone refuses to get vacinnated. Sometimes I think it is a bit too easy to blame religion on everything when there are various other reasons why people don't do things.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, '15, 10:54 pm 
No religion ever tells you not to vaccinate against disease. Ever. Anyone who says they don't do so for religious reasons is an idiot. Period.
Claiming it's because BigPharma is out to rob you or inject you with nasty chemicals or government tracking conspiracies is also an idiot. I'm guessing paying a few bucks in the states is a bit much to ask for your child's safety and indeed that of other's around you. Hey, I won't stop you. (In the UK we don't have to pay because we know how to run a proper health service for a generally underpaid populace.) But if you'd rather not, then that's fine. I'm sure the market for junior sized coffins will appreciate the income when all kinds of nasty stuff kills the kiddies.

I know I turned out okay, and I've had pretty much everything injected into me, plus more, with no adverse effects. Saying you won't do it because there's a slim chance of that happening is pointless. If it does happen, well that's life. When did you last hear of anyone dying from a measles jab? We humans have a rich history of putting strange and unusual things into ourselves as it is anyway. Often in the name of medicine and often for...other reasons. *ahem*

As for the issue of awareness: there comes a point where you can know too much about something. Leave the nitty-gritty details to the doctors. Could that injection potentially harm your kid? Yes, duh. But wouldn't you rather avoid the "Oh if only I'd given them the jab!" moment when you cause an outbreak at...disneyland? Oh wait.

tl;dr Shut up, take the friggin' jab and be thankful we have such options available in the first place.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, '15, 2:58 am 
Parma Ham wrote:I simply said there's a difference between reasoned conscientious objection and irresponsibility, and that I respect the former. Period. If you think I'm promoting vaccine refusal, then I don't know how to convince you otherwise.

I don't see where anyone said you are promoting vaccine refusal, and I don't think that you are. The point/argument that I'm making is that where you say "there's a difference between reasoned conscientious objection and irresponsibility, and that I respect the former", I disagree with that. It doesn't matter which path you take if the destination is the same, and I have yet to see a valid "reasoned conscientious objection" that is backed up by scientific research and data. So no, I don't respect either one.

And just to clarify further, I'm not blaming religion for the lower vaccination rates. It's just one of many (unfounded) reasons why we're in the situation we're in now. Again, you can believe and do whatever you want (religious or otherwise), but your right to do so stops when you harm other people. To take religion out of the equation entirely, let's say, for example, you're a vegetarian. You can stop eating meat. You can try to convince other people to stop eating meat. You can post memes on facebook and go to rallies and campaign for better treatment of livestock. You cannot bomb a meat packaging facility, injuring/killing the people who work there. (Lest you think I'm being extreme, if the anti-vaccination movement gets any stronger and the herd immunity is further weakened, the potential for an epidemic is similar to a bomb just waiting to go off.)

I could think of a dozen more examples, but really, how lovely that we have the privilege and luxury to engage in this "debate" in the first place. In other parts of the world, where there are vaccine shortages and these diseases are killing people, there are parents lined up begging for their children to be vaccinated. And even in this country, we're not that far removed from the generation whose parents were terrified of their kids getting polio, but I guess that's easy to forget from that aforementioned position of privilege and luxury.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, '15, 3:40 am 
I knew I said I wouldn't reply again, but since somebody brought up religion and it was not me, I only displace to relay this article that really struck a deep chord with me in 2008: ... ical-help/

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