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PostPosted: Thu Jun 2, '11, 1:49 pm 
Ever notice how Dark Force's arms to his side seem to be shared by two of his faces? (e.g., the left arm belongs to the left face and the center one) Perhaps it is because DF transcends our 3D reality and that was the best way they could have shown his multi-dimensionalness. Maybe his "different" faces are all the same face but only have the illusion of being different faces because of our perspective? :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 2, '11, 9:45 pm 
Hm, interesting. To expand on it, maybe every incarnation of Dark Force is really the same, and they just look different because our limited perspective interprets them differently. That would be a neat approach to explore in a story.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 2, '11, 11:53 pm 
I definitely think Dark Force is supposed to conjure that crazy Lovecraftian vibe that defies all understanding. But I still like to think he has fantastic fashion sense, with all his various looks through the years.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 3, '11, 4:45 am 
I pretty much thought of a similar thing too.
I've also thought of Dark Force being the one collective consciousness but able to inhabit multiple forms all at the same time.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 4, '11, 1:03 am 
Speaking of DF is it true that Lassic from the first PS knew about the Profound Darkness? I found the entire root of all evil ultimate bad guy theme puerile and I think it would have been more mature if DF was the summoning of everyone's collective vices and hatred manifested from another dimension. In other words, the selfish ambitions and colonialism of the Earthmen summoned Dark Force, and the Earthmen influenced him instead of the other way around.

Ironically, Dark Force from PSII was more challenging than the Profound Darkness from PSIV, I guess this shows how powerful Chaz and party are compared to the previous games :) (or maybe how useful a dedicated healer like Raja is, but I did beat him with a party of four too)

PSIII has each new generation stronger than the last (e.g., level 50 Wren and level 10 third generation heroes have similar stats) so maybe this principle applies to the entire series?

"I've also thought of Dark Force being the one collective consciousness but able to inhabit multiple forms all at the same time."

That would make sense since he's a multidimensional entity.


Last edited by JustMe on Sat Jun 4, '11, 1:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 4, '11, 4:00 pm 
There are a couple of different takes on how Lassic got involved with Dark Force. One says that he learned the whole Great Light/Profound Darkness story and contacted either the Darkness or Dark Force, I forget which offhand, then summoned DF to Algo. The other story has Lassic falling under the influence of a group that worshipped DF already. It's just a matter of which you want to believe.

I've always thought Chaz was more powerful than Rolf because Chaz was able to control Megid better. I never considered applying the PSIII generation level changes to that idea, but I like that. Each generation could have the potential to be more powerful than the last. It makes me wonder how well Alis would have done in PSIV.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 4, '11, 7:19 pm 
I like the idea that Lassic was influenced by an existing group. It makes him more human, somehow. I see him as basically a Machiavellian politician with these big ideas, and somehow that all got perverted. The idea that he discovered Dark Force and somehow summoned him makes it seem like he was already some kind of great wizard, which just doesn't really ring true to me based on the events of PS I.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 4, '11, 11:06 pm 
Thoul wrote:There are a couple of different takes on how Lassic got involved with Dark Force. One says that he learned the whole Great Light/Profound Darkness story and contacted either the Darkness or Dark Force, I forget which offhand, then summoned DF to Algo. The other story has Lassic falling under the influence of a group that worshipped DF already. It's just a matter of which you want to believe.

I've always thought Chaz was more powerful than Rolf because Chaz was able to control Megid better. I never considered applying the PSIII generation level changes to that idea, but I like that. Each generation could have the potential to be more powerful than the last. It makes me wonder how well Alis would have done in PSIV.


I think it would have been better in PSIV if Megid still drained HP, since it entails sacrificing something for big damage. Also, the balance of power is way too tipped in the main character's direction, so I think it would be better for Rune to have the spell, especially since he's an intelligence based wizard. I'll also say that I wish Hugh had Megid in PSII instead of Rolf. The question is, would Alis' team even be able to defeat Zio? :D This brings something up that I think an Alis or Rolf mode in PSIV would be great in a remake, like having to complete secret post-playthrough dungeons in I and II. What if after playing through Rycross (hypothetical secret dungeon 1) Rolf and team have to fight Rulkalkur and others on Palm (presuming that Laya and Orakio were on Palm around the PSII timeline) and defeat the Profound Darkness early?

Back to canon, perhaps the Great Light waited for Chaz's timeline to fight the Profound Darkness because the previous generations wouldn't be capable of stopping it, but only their respective incarnations of Dark Force? In the remake of the first Final Fantasy they can fight Shinryu, a superboss from Final Fantasy X who is far tougher than Omega Weapon, so who knows how well Alis would do in PSIV in any hypothetical remake? One thing is certain, her team would need to be very overleveled to stand a chance. Then again she did defeat DF with just a Laconian Sword, which by the time of PSII and IV are common weapons.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 8, '11, 4:34 pm 
As for how well Alis and party would have done this could be a good proximity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQNPubRWMyU

I've read that the max level in PS1 was level 30, and a level 30 Chaz is probably far stronger than a level 30 Alis.

Don't know the levels below but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NmoEGUTIqE

Although the ones in the below remake might stand somewhat of a chance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKPqh6uNaYg

I don't like how they changed Dark Falz's face from the original Dark Force face :-(

As for comparing stats I've found a stat guide for PS1, which is good but the one for PS4 only goes up to level 50:

http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/sms/ps1/characters.shtml

http://www.gamefaqs.com/genesis/563334- ... faqs/41301

I did find a picture of a level 61 Chaz:

http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c374/ ... evel61.gif

Where his sword is better than Alis' best weapon, which is Chaz's third best in PSIV.


Last edited by JustMe on Wed Jun 8, '11, 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 8, '11, 7:52 pm 
Bah, it is just that silly notion of the badly-planned Japanese series where the next opponent must be stronger than the last one, so the new hero must be stronger than the last.

PSIV just screwed everything by using this old cliché, especially in a series known for their more mature plots (PSII and PSIII). When I see people comparing the strength of PSIV heroes the strength of other PS game heroes (and obviously concluding that the PSIV heroes were stronger because PSIV plot sucks as part of a series [it is fine as a standalone game]), it is obvious that there is something very wrong with PSIV. The other games don't raise this comparison because they respect each other; PSIV wanted to be "the definitive PS" and threw all the other games in the gutter to give cheap thrills to the gamers.


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