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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, '07, 10:03 pm 
...take one down, pass it around, 98 Dark Forces on the wall. :sing:

So, some folks think that each Dark Force is an individual being, while others think that each manifestation is just one entity returning again and again. What's your take on the matter?

But what I really wanted to ask was in regards to Phantasy Star III. In one of the endings, the Neo Palm people mention they've justed defeated Dark Force, just as the Alisa III heroes had done. Do you believe there was a second Dark Force physically present on the Neo Palm, or would you rather think of it as some plan hatched by minions of the Alisa III DF, perhaps in contact with Rulakir over the comm system?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, '07, 11:59 pm 
Quote:Mieu:
Look! A spaceship that's just like ours! It must be
the other surviving spaceship.

Wren:
That spaceship is sending us a message.

Voice:
Hello Alisa III. This is the spaceship Neo Palm. That
explosion earlier attracted our attention. We guessed
that Dark Force had arisen again and we came over to
lend any help you needed. Since you're still here, we
assume you've won. In 1,000 years, Dark Force will arise
again. Let's get rid of it for good next time!

From this text...it doesn't say that they actually defeated Dark Force, but perhaps they somehow knew about it? Besides, I'm sure that the Japanese version's different.

As for the initial question, I believe that Dark Force is individual; merely a creation of the PD. It has its own consciousness, right? Like when it's under the mascarade as Seth, it manipulated Chaz and the others into letting him join, only to use them to get ahold of the Aero Prism. And in PSII when you see it, it seems to mock Rolf and the others (as it also does in PSIII with the 3rd generation heroes).

Its actions throughout the series are conducted with the intent of freeing the PD; is this a puppet under the PD's control? I'd like to think this is and isn't true, and therein lies a conflicting answer. As a puppet, it's being used for the goal of freeing its' creator, but I think that is to the extent of which it goes. As for its own desires, it yearns for the destruction of the GL's creations.

I think there can be more than one Dark Force, and who says that Dark Force can't survive without the PD? Would that mean that, if the GL was actually gone, then would Algo fall to ruin and just vanish? Then again, that would be the case if it were a manifestation...

Take this example. Leonardo Da Vinchi painted many paintings, and one that I'm sure we all know about is the famous Mona Lisa. Even after his death, it still exists. To say that it wouldn't exist after his death simply makes no sense since it's a physical object. It can still be destroyed and all, but it hasn't yet it's still around. :p

With that in mind, Dark Force could be like a painting, created by the PD... When the GL's flames (hah, fire...but really, it's an example of protectors!) burn the dark painting, it turns to ashes, hence being destroyed. So why couldn't the PD paint more pictures, or so to speak? Or more than one, for that matter?

This is where I think the seal comes in... I don't really believe that the PD was really destroyed in PSIV, but the seal was just fixed with the Elsydeon. Could the protectors really destroy something that the GL had a hard time with? I somehow doubt it.

I don't think I have anything more to add to this at the moment... :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 1, '07, 9:18 am 
Huh, I could have sworn they said they fought DF too. Ah well, I guess I remembered wrong. Thanks for the correction. :mrgreen:

Excellent answer, especially with the painting analogy. :up: That sums up my thoughts quite nicely, but I couldn't have said it so well.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 1, '07, 8:04 pm 
I think when it comes to Dark Force, it's co controversial that there is no one correct answer, as there's so many little things that are left unexplained. :D


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 1, '07, 8:36 pm 
I think each Dark Force is an individual, but also a manifestation. I view DF as a collection of negative feelings (anger, hatred and so on) from a being or group that have become so strong, it manifests as a malicious being, which we know as Dark Force.

From this idea, most of the Dark Forces in Algo are manifestations of the Profound Darkness' power and rage, but a Dark Force can come into being as a result of other sources. Like the one on the Noah; I see that as having been created by the Earthmen's negative aspects and then preying on those to fully corrupt the Earthmen.

This idea can explain the DFs coming from the PD, but also leave the door open for others to appear without the PD being involved at all.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 1, '07, 8:41 pm 
As mentioned by Lew-Ars on Rykros in PS4, the four planets that make up the Algo solar system are actualy a seal that binds Profound Darkness in its tomb. When Palma exploded, Dark Force apeared more frequently (3 forms) in Phantasy Star IV. I think that Dark Force was the only evil being that was capable of escaping the seal when it was at semi-strength (i.e, when Rykros came into visible orbit). It could be that Profound Darknes was gathering its strength and sent out Dark Force to do its bidding until it was ready to move from its dimension and into Algos.
Since Dark Force was the main enemy in PS1 - PS3, I think that this seems like a logical explaination. If I've left anything out then I'm really going to be embaressed, but these are my thoughts.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 1, '07, 8:51 pm 
From how I interpreted PSIV, each Dark Force was a manifestation of the Profound Darkness. So there could be a virtually unlimited Dark Forces I suppose. Only played through PSIV once though so might not recall it perfectly - it is a good explanation of how different Dark Forces continue to appear.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 1, '07, 8:55 pm 
Actualy, Dark Force was a seperate entity. The old Dezolin in Jut Temple refered to Dark Force as a lesser being compared to Profound Darkness. Sorry.... I'm a PSIV Junkie. ^__^


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 2, '07, 12:58 am 
Neithird, that sounds like a logical conclusion. I wasn't sure if something could be both an individual and a manifestation, since a manifestation is a part of something, like its essence, right? It's all pretty confusing. :faint:

If it were truly a manifestation, then wouldn't the Dark Force that followed the worldships have vanished as the seal was fixed in in PSIV? :? But then, this would turn into a matter of dependance on its host if this were the case. So what I'm asking is, do you think that Dark Force has any dependance on the PD?

And Heik, your explanation's very good. :) I don't have anything to add to that, other than you seemed to hit the nail on the head.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 2, '07, 5:34 pm 
Quote:As mentioned by Lew-Ars on Rykros in PS4, the four planets that make up the Algo solar system are actualy a seal that binds Profound Darkness in its tomb.


Technically only three planets are part of the seal. Rykros was added after the seal was complete, to serve as an warning that the seal was weakening.


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